City Council
City Council
Wed, June 17, 2026
Agenda items
Vote records
Discussion summary
Transcript
Meeting summaryAI-generated
City Council / Finance Committee — June 17, 2026
This was a lengthy special city council meeting paired with a Finance Committee budget hearing that ran past midnight, covering the FY2027 General Fund, Sewer Enterprise, and Water Enterprise budgets, along with multiple departmental budget reviews. It was one of the longest budget sessions in recent memory.
FY2027 General Fund Budget (Order 2026-073)
The Finance Committee spent the bulk of the evening working through departmental budgets line by line before the full council voted on the consolidated general fund appropriation. After numerous amendments and cuts across departments (detailed below), the final revised general fund budget totaled $488,464,606.17, down from the original proposed figure of $491,849,702. The reductions came from two structural changes (reclassifying downtown district debt service from the general fund to the DIF capital projects account, and correcting the short-term interest line to remove water and sewer obligations) plus direct line-item cuts across multiple departments.
Vote: 9–0 in favor.
FY2027 Sewer Enterprise Budget (Order 2026-074)
Passed without amendment at $31,685,202.76.
Vote: 9–0 in favor.
FY2027 Water Enterprise Budget (Order 2026-075)
Passed as amended at $27,580,975.72, reflecting a $74,000 cut made during earlier committee review.
Vote: 9–0 in favor.
Tourism / Historical Society Budget
Staff presented a revised budget that added a new line item — "Director of Historic Society Benefits" at $14,814 — covering health insurance and pension contributions for the historical society director. The cost is offset by hotel/motel tax revenue. The committee accepted the revised budget and voted to approve it without dissent.
Library Budget
This was the most contentious departmental budget of the evening. The library director and city auditor appeared to correct a series of bookkeeping errors in which employees had been charged to incorrect budget lines for up to four years — in some cases producing misleading zero balances in certain lines. Councilor Yuan raised pointed concerns about the accuracy of the information available to councilors for meaningful oversight, noting that updated reports arrived only hours before the meeting. Councilor Mahoney walked through the fiscal year-end transfers, noting that approximately $200,000 had been transferred out of the library's personal services line, attributable to three vacant positions: a Wallaston branch librarian, a teen and adult services librarian at Adams Shore, and a custodian.
After extensive questioning, the committee voted to cut $20,000 from the library personal services bottom line. The budget was then approved as amended. Councilor Yuan voted no on final passage, citing ongoing difficulty tracking the budget due to late-arriving corrected data.
Vote on $20,000 cut: 8–0 (all present). Vote on final amended budget: 8–1 (Yuan opposed).
Downtown District Budget
Administration presented a structural change: debt service, bond premiums, and related offsets previously paid from the general fund will now be paid from a dedicated DIF (District Improvement Financing) capital projects account, removing approximately $900,000 from the general obligation budget and providing clearer accounting of DIF revenues and expenditures. Councilor Mahoney noted this had been her long-standing request. The committee accepted the revised budget, then separately voted to cut $20,000 from contracted services and $20,000 from overtime (revised down from a proposed $50,000 cut after the director indicated $6,500 in overtime obligations remained for the current fiscal year-end). The budget was approved as amended.
Short-Term Debt Budget
Finance Director Paul DeBarbara presented a corrected short-term interest figure of $15,833,818, reduced from the original $16,646,432 by removing water and sewer interest that had been improperly included in the general fund line. The committee accepted the correction. Councilor Mahoney then performed her own analysis using Hilltop Securities debt service data, concluding there was an additional $149,662 in the budget above what the city's actual contractual note interest obligations required, and moved to cut that amount. DeBarbara said he could not confirm the exact figure without further verification but was willing to accept the cut and return in the fall if needed. The cut passed 8–1 (DiBona opposed, expressing discomfort with the math).
Long-Term Debt Budget
Councilor Mahoney identified what she believed was a $500,000 carryover — the final payment on a 2019 judgment bond that was paid in FY2026 but appeared to still be reflected in the FY2027 proposed debt service. She moved to cut $500,000 from the long-term debt budget, noting that if the cut proved incorrect, the administration could return for a supplemental appropriation since debt service is a contractual obligation. The motion passed 8–1 (DiBona opposed). The committee also received comments from Councilor Yuan noting that the city's total outstanding and authorized debt, as reflected in Hilltop Securities reports, amounts to approximately $2 billion — a figure higher than the $1.8 billion previously cited publicly. Councilor Mahoney expressed frustration that the full debt picture had to be discovered by councilors through their own research rather than being proactively disclosed by the administration.
Pension / Retirement Budget
The FY2027 pension contribution was presented at $9,749,500, down approximately $6.35 million from FY2026. The actuary study by Milliman (contracted to review assumptions used by the current actuary) is expected in early July. Councilor DiBona defended the 2021 pension obligation bond, noting that without it, annual pension payments would likely have reached $50 million by now. Councilor Yuan raised concerns about market risk — noting the pension fund lost $90 million in the year after the bond was issued — and called the term "self-supported debt" misleading, arguing that whether debt is financed through the general fund or enterprise funds, it ultimately comes from residents' pockets. The budget was approved as presented.
Vote: 9–0.
Law Department Budget
City Solicitor James Timmons presented a largely level-funded budget. Key discussion centered on two outside counsel line items. On the 530010 Outside Counsel line ($195,000), Councilor Jacobs argued that reducing the appropriation would force the administration to return to the council for additional funds, creating a visible reminder to taxpayers of ongoing legal expenditures — particularly the Long Island Bridge litigation ($35,651 spent to date in FY26 with more bills pending) and the ballot petition case ($110,847 spent to date). Councilor Ash cautioned that time-sensitive legal deadlines could be jeopardized if funds ran out mid-summer. After debate, a $43,000 cut to that line (to $152,000) passed 5–4 (Ash, DiBona, Hubley, Riley opposed). On the 530303 Contracted Services line, Councilor Yuan moved to cut $20,000 (to $152,000), which passed 5–4. The final amended budget was approved.
Workers' Compensation Budget
The solicitor presented a consistent multi-year budget. Councilor Mahoney, reviewing the six-year averages, moved to cut $65,000 from the injured pay line (510173, to $687,885) and $50,000 from the medical bills line (570703, to $803,800). Both cuts passed unanimously (9–0 each). Budget approved as amended.
Judgments and Settlements Budget
Councilor McKee requested detailed information on past settlements, and Solicitor Timmons pushed back, asserting that disclosing settlement specifics would compromise the city's negotiating position in future cases. He agreed to provide redacted information. Councilor Yuan moved to cut $50,000 from the settlements line (to $250,000), citing the six-year average expenditure of approximately $221,000. The motion passed 6–3 (Ash, DiBona, Hubley opposed). Budget approved as amended.
Mayor's Office Budget
Discussion focused on the Community Liaison position ($92,564). Councilor Yuan moved to eliminate the position, arguing it was redundant with constituent services and communications roles, and citing a broader concern that the city had added more than 400 positions over the past four years. Several councilors — including Mahoney, McKee, Hubley, DiBona, Jacobs, and Ash — spoke against elimination, acknowledging the position had not been structured as originally envisioned but arguing it had value and that cutting it would likely mean it would never be restored. Multiple councilors said they would prefer to give the position another year with clearer goals and metrics. Councilor Yuan withdrew the motion. A separate minor cut of $780 from the premium pay line (510193) was approved unanimously. Budget approved as amended.
Celebrations Budget
The $300,000 celebrations budget drew attention to a $75,000 payment to the "Quincy Foundation," a 501(c)(4) entity that Councilor McKee said she could not locate in the Secretary of State's corporations database. Chris Walker explained the foundation historically runs the city's Christmas and Flag Day parades. Councilors also discussed funding for the Ruth Gordon Amphitheater ($15,000), Quincy Pride ($5,000), and various parade costs. Councilor Yuan initially moved to cut $50,000, then revised the motion to $25,000 (to $275,000). That motion passed 5–4 (Ash, DiBona, Hubley, Jacobs opposed).
City Council Budget
Councilor Mahoney presented a modest cut of $8,000 from the city clerk line (510003), at the city clerk's own request, to properly align the salary with what was agreed (no percentage increase for this position), while preserving room for longevity payments. Passed unanimously. Budget approved as amended.
Other Orders Passed
Order 2026-087: Utility grant of location — Mass Electric/Verizon, 10 Independence Avenue (new construction). Passed 9–0.
Order 2025-139: Appropriation amendment of $3,386,510 for Community Preservation accounts. Passed 9–0.
Order 2026-094: Appropriation of $97,635 from Community Preservation Fund Administration for PAX Department personal services. Passed 9–0.
Council President's Statement on Eastern Nazarene College Vote
At the close of the meeting, Council President Mahoney exercised a point of privilege to respond to public statements by Mayor Koch characterizing the council's recent vote against the Eastern Nazarene College acquisition as "orchestrated" by her. She called that characterization "insulting" to every member of the council, asserting that six independently elected councilors had reviewed the information, assessed the risks — including a city debt load that grew from $1.6 billion to $2 billion over eight months — and independently reached the same conclusion. She defended the council's right and responsibility to ask questions, noted that much of the information relied upon had to be obtained through the council's own research rather than provided proactively by the administration, and stated that policy disagreement does not constitute obstruction. "That's not an orchestration. That's representation."
Key Takeaways
The FY2027 general fund budget of approximately $488.5 million was approved unanimously, with total cuts of roughly $1.67 million from the mayor's original proposal, spread across debt, library, legal, workers' comp, downtown district, and celebrations accounts.
The city's total debt is approximately $2 billion — including $1.36 billion in outstanding debt and $708 million in authorized-but-unissued bonds — a figure councilors say they had to discover themselves through publicly available Hilltop Securities reports rather than through administration disclosure.
Persistent bookkeeping errors in the library budget, with salary lines misclassified for up to four years, drew sharp criticism from Councilor Yuan about the quality and timeliness of financial information provided to the council for oversight purposes.
The "Quincy Foundation," a 501(c)(4) that receives tens of thousands of dollars annually from the city's celebrations budget to run the Christmas and Flag Day parades, could not be located in the Secretary of State's database; councilors flagged this for an oversight hearing.
Council President Mahoney publicly rebutted Mayor Koch's characterization of the ENC vote as "orchestrated," arguing the council exercised independent judgment after the administration repeatedly failed to provide requested financial information in a timely manner.
AI-generated summary from voice-to-text transcript. Not the official record. Verify important details with the source documents linked above.
What happened at this meeting
2 026-073 – Appropriation - Fiscal 2027 General Fund Budget Mayor Koch
# Fiscal 2027 General Fund Budget Discussion Summary
The City Council deliberated on the Fiscal 2027 General Fund Budget, addressing multiple concerns including library department staffing discrepancies and workers' compensation line items, with staff committing to complete accounting system corrections by June 30th. Council members, including Councilor McGee and Councilor McKee, questioned significant budget fluctuations and raised concerns that Quincy's workers' compensation allocation appeared disproportionately high compared to similar-sized municipalities, though staff defended the figures based on local employee numbers and historical spending patterns. The Council approved amendments totaling $1.7 million in line item cuts, including a $900,000 transfer to the Stabilization Fund for overtime costs and a $20,000 reduction to the overtime budget to cover anticipated needs through July 1st, along with an $8,000 cut to the City Clerk salary line at the auditor's request. Chairman Riley praised the extended budget process and highlighted the Council's commitment to preserving key positions in DEI, Community Preservation, police, fire, and education while expressing concern about cuts to emergency management. The final revised budget of $488,464,606.17 passed with strong support, including a 9-0 unanimous vote that reflected the Council's collaborative effort on this extensive review.
The City Council deliberated on the Fiscal 2027 General Fund Budget, addressing multiple concerns including library department staffing discrepancies and workers' compensation line items, with staff committing to complete accounting system corrections by June 30th. Council members, including Councilor McGee and Councilor McKee, questioned significant budget fluctuations and raised concerns that Quincy's workers' compensation allocation appeared disproportionately high compared to similar-sized municipalities, though staff defended the figures based on local employee numbers and historical spending patterns. The Council approved amendments totaling $1.7 million in line item cuts, including a $900,000 transfer to the Stabilization Fund for overtime costs and a $20,000 reduction to the overtime budget to cover anticipated needs through July 1st, along with an $8,000 cut to the City Clerk salary line at the auditor's request. Chairman Riley praised the extended budget process and highlighted the Council's commitment to preserving key positions in DEI, Community Preservation, police, fire, and education while expressing concern about cuts to emergency management. The final revised budget of $488,464,606.17 passed with strong support, including a 9-0 unanimous vote that reflected the Council's collaborative effort on this extensive review.
2026-074 – Appropriation - Fiscal 2027 Sewer Enterprise Budget M ayor Koch
Staff presented the Fiscal 2027 Sewer Enterprise Budget with a proposed amount of $31,685,202.76. Councilor Jacobs moved to approve and Councilor Ash seconded the motion to pass the sewer enterprise budget. No specific concerns or questions were noted in the discussion. The motion passed 9-0 with all council members voting yes.
2 026-075 – Appropriation - Fiscal 2027 Water Enterprise Budget M ayor Koch
Staff presented the Fiscal 2027 Water Enterprise Budget with an original proposed amount of $27,654,975.72. A cut of $74,000 was made, bringing the final total to $27,580,975.72. Councilor Riley moved to approve and Councilor Jacobs seconded the motion. No specific concerns or questions were noted in the discussion. The motion passed 9-0 with all council members voting yes.
Agenda items (3)
Appropriation
1Appropriation2 026-073 – Appropriation - Fiscal 2027 General Fund Budget Mayor Koch
Mayor Koch is requesting approval of the city's main operating budget for fiscal year 2027, which covers general city services and operations funded by property taxes and other general revenues.
What happened
# Fiscal 2027 General Fund Budget Discussion SummaryThe City Council deliberated on the Fiscal 2027 General Fund Budget, addressing multiple concerns including library department staffing discrepancies and workers' compensation line items, with staff committing to complete accounting system corrections by June 30th. Council members, including Councilor McGee and Councilor McKee, questioned significant budget fluctuations and raised concerns that Quincy's workers' compensation allocation appeared disproportionately high compared to similar-sized municipalities, though staff defended the figures based on local employee numbers and historical spending patterns. The Council approved amendments totaling $1.7 million in line item cuts, including a $900,000 transfer to the Stabilization Fund for overtime costs and a $20,000 reduction to the overtime budget to cover anticipated needs through July 1st, along with an $8,000 cut to the City Clerk salary line at the auditor's request. Chairman Riley praised the extended budget process and highlighted the Council's commitment to preserving key positions in DEI, Community Preservation, police, fire, and education while expressing concern about cuts to emergency management. The final revised budget of $488,464,606.17 passed with strong support, including a 9-0 unanimous vote that reflected the Council's collaborative effort on this extensive review.
2Appropriation2026-074 – Appropriation - Fiscal 2027 Sewer Enterprise Budget M ayor Koch
Mayor Koch is requesting approval of the fiscal 2027 budget for the city's sewer system, which is funded separately through sewer fees paid by residents and businesses.
What happened
Staff presented the Fiscal 2027 Sewer Enterprise Budget with a proposed amount of $31,685,202.76. Councilor Jacobs moved to approve and Councilor Ash seconded the motion to pass the sewer enterprise budget. No specific concerns or questions were noted in the discussion. The motion passed 9-0 with all council members voting yes.3Appropriation2 026-075 – Appropriation - Fiscal 2027 Water Enterprise Budget M ayor Koch
Mayor Koch is requesting approval of the fiscal 2027 budget for the city's water system, which is funded separately through water fees charged to residents and businesses.
What happened
Staff presented the Fiscal 2027 Water Enterprise Budget with an original proposed amount of $27,654,975.72. A cut of $74,000 was made, bringing the final total to $27,580,975.72. Councilor Riley moved to approve and Councilor Jacobs seconded the motion. No specific concerns or questions were noted in the discussion. The motion passed 9-0 with all council members voting yes.Additional votes recorded in minutes
Accept Tourism Budget amendment (director of historic society benefits line)
aye 1
voice voteaye
Approve Tourism Budget
aye 1
voice voteaye
Cut $20,000 from Library Personal Services line
aye 9
Anne Mahoneyaye
David Jacobsaye
Deborah Rileyaye
Maggie McKeeaye
Noel DiBonaaye
Richard Ashaye
Virginia Ryanaye
Walter Hubleyaye
Ziqiang Yuanaye
Approve Library Budget as amended
aye 1 · nay 1
voice voteaye
Ziqiang Yuannay
Accept Downtown District revised budget (DIF offset)
aye 1
voice voteaye
Cut $20,000 from Downtown District contracted services
aye 1
voice voteaye
Cut $20,000 from Downtown District overtime (revised from $50,000)
nay 1 · aye 1
Noel DiBonanay
voice voteaye
Approve Downtown District Budget as amended
aye 1
voice voteaye
Accept Short-Term Debt revised budget
aye 1
voice voteaye
Cut $149,662 from Short-Term Debt interest line
aye 8 · nay 1
Anne Mahoneyaye
David Jacobsaye
Deborah Rileyaye
Maggie McKeeaye
Noel DiBonanay
Richard Ashaye
Virginia Ryanaye
Walter Hubleyaye
Ziqiang Yuanaye
Approve Short-Term Debt Budget as amended
aye 1
voice voteaye
Cut $500,000 from Long-Term Debt current expense line
aye 1
voice voteaye
Approve Long-Term Debt Budget as amended
aye 1
voice voteaye
Approve Pension/Retirement Budget
aye 1
voice voteaye
Cut $86,000 from Legal Outside Counsel line 530010
aye 5 · nay 4
Anne Mahoneyaye
David Jacobsaye
Deborah Rileynay
Maggie McKeeaye
Noel DiBonanay
Richard Ashnay
Virginia Ryanaye
Walter Hubleynay
Ziqiang Yuanaye
Cut $20,000 from Legal Contracted Services line 530303
aye 5 · nay 4
Anne Mahoneyaye
David Jacobsaye
Deborah Rileynay
Maggie McKeeaye
Noel DiBonanay
Richard Ashnay
Virginia Ryanaye
Walter Hubleynay
Ziqiang Yuanaye
Approve Legal Budget as amended
aye 1
voice voteaye
Cut $65,000 from Workers Comp Injured Pay line 510173
aye 9
Anne Mahoneyaye
David Jacobsaye
Deborah Rileyaye
Maggie McKeeaye
Noel DiBonaaye
Richard Ashaye
Virginia Ryanaye
Walter Hubleyaye
Ziqiang Yuanaye
Cut $50,000 from Workers Comp Medical line 570703
aye 9
Anne Mahoneyaye
David Jacobsaye
Deborah Rileyaye
Maggie McKeeaye
Noel DiBonaaye
Richard Ashaye
Virginia Ryanaye
Walter Hubleyaye
Ziqiang Yuanaye
Approve Workers Compensation Budget as amended
aye 1
voice voteaye
Cut $50,000 from Judgments and Settlements line 570601
aye 7 · nay 2
Anne Mahoneyaye
David Jacobsaye
Deborah Rileyaye
Maggie McKeeaye
Noel DiBonanay
Richard Ashnay
Virginia Ryanaye
Walter Hubleyaye
Ziqiang Yuanaye
Approve Judgments and Settlements Budget as amended
aye 1
voice voteaye
Suspend Rule 24 (extend meeting past 11 PM)
aye 1
voice voteaye
Cut $3,900 to $3,120 in Mayor's Office premium pay line 510193
aye 9
Anne Mahoneyaye
David Jacobsaye
Deborah Rileyaye
Maggie McKeeaye
Noel DiBonaaye
Richard Ashaye
Virginia Ryanaye
Walter Hubleyaye
Ziqiang Yuanaye
Approve Mayor's Office Budget as amended (510193 cut only)
aye 8 · nay 1
Anne Mahoneyaye
David Jacobsnay
Deborah Rileyaye
Maggie McKeeaye
Noel DiBonaaye
Richard Ashaye
Virginia Ryanaye
Walter Hubleyaye
Ziqiang Yuanaye
Cut $25,000 from Celebrations budget line 570800
aye 5 · nay 4
Anne Mahoneyaye
David Jacobsnay
Deborah Rileyaye
Maggie McKeeaye
Noel DiBonanay
Richard Ashnay
Virginia Ryanaye
Walter Hubleynay
Ziqiang Yuanaye
Approve Celebrations Budget as amended
aye 1
voice voteaye
Cut $8,000 from City Clerk/City Council line 510003
aye 1
voice voteaye
Approve City Council Budget as amended
aye 1
voice voteaye
Approve FY2027 General Fund Budget as amended (Order 2026-073)
aye 9
Anne Mahoneyaye
David Jacobsaye
Deborah Rileyaye
Maggie McKeeaye
Noel DiBonaaye
Richard Ashaye
Virginia Ryanaye
Walter Hubleyaye
Ziqiang Yuanaye
Approve FY2027 Sewer Enterprise Budget (Order 2026-074)
aye 9
Anne Mahoneyaye
David Jacobsaye
Deborah Rileyaye
Maggie McKeeaye
Noel DiBonaaye
Richard Ashaye
Virginia Ryanaye
Walter Hubleyaye
Ziqiang Yuanaye
Approve FY2027 Water Enterprise Budget as amended (Order 2026-075)
aye 9
Anne Mahoneyaye
David Jacobsaye
Deborah Rileyaye
Maggie McKeeaye
Noel DiBonaaye
Richard Ashaye
Virginia Ryanaye
Walter Hubleyaye
Ziqiang Yuanaye
Approve Utility Grant Location Mass Electric Verizon 10 Independence Ave (Order 2026-087)
aye 8 · absent 1
Anne Mahoneyaye
David Jacobsaye
Deborah Rileyaye
Maggie McKeeaye
Noel DiBonaaye
Richard Ashabsent
Virginia Ryanaye
Walter Hubleyaye
Ziqiang Yuanaye
Approve Appropriation Amendment $3,386,510 for Community Preservation Accounts (Order 2025-139)
aye 9
Anne Mahoneyaye
David Jacobsaye
Deborah Rileyaye
Maggie McKeeaye
Noel DiBonaaye
Richard Ashaye
Virginia Ryanaye
Walter Hubleyaye
Ziqiang Yuanaye
Approve Appropriation $97,630 for CPC Department Personal Services (Order 2026-094)
aye 9
Anne Mahoneyaye
David Jacobsaye
Deborah Rileyaye
Maggie McKeeaye
Noel DiBonaaye
Richard Ashaye
Virginia Ryanaye
Walter Hubleyaye
Ziqiang Yuanaye
Verbatim transcript available
905 transcript segments indexed
Good evening. I'm calling the special city council meeting Wednesday, June 17th, 2026 se at 7:30 to meeting. Um, city clerk, could you, madam clerk, could you call the role? Councelor Ash, councelor Debana, councelor Hubley, sorry.
Councelor Jacobs. Council McKe. Council Riley, present. Council Ryan, present. Council Yuen, present. President Mahome, present. If we could all stand for a moment of silence and turn to pledge allegiance to the flag.
I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. So at this point, we're going to join adjourn this meeting and move right into finance.
Do we need to gonna say I don't think we did that. Okay. Good evening. I'd like to call to order the uh Wednesday, June 17th, departmental budget hearings of the finance committee and start by reading the open meeting law.
Pursuant to the open meeting law, any person may make an audio or video video recording of this public meeting or may transmit the meeting through any medium. Attendees are therefore advised that such recordings or transmissions are being made whether perceived or unperceived by those present and are deemed acknowledged and permissible.
Do we need to call the role set? Okay. Um first item on the agenda is the uh tourism budget. Um we had yes we had had some questions on the um historical society benefits and Mr. Walker, you're prepared to speak to that through you, Madam Chairwoman.
Thank you very much. Uh, as the council can see, uh, at its request, the amended budget includes a new line, um, director of historic society benefits, $14,814. Um, that covers the health insurance and pension contribution of the director of the historical society society.
And as you can see, that is also offset included in the offset from the hotel motel tax. Thank you, Mr. Walker. Any discussion on this or motion? We need to accept the new budget. Okay. From We need a motion for that.
Yeah. Motion to accepting. Okay. Motion from um Council Mahoney to accept. Any discussion on this? All those in favor? Any opposed? Wonderful. Okay. Moving on to the library budget. Miss Slimyman. That just accepts the budget.
Oh, that just accepted to approve it. Oh, sorry about that. Okay. Motion. We need a Sorry, excuse me, Sarah. We need a motion to approve this budget. We have accepted it. We need a motion to approve. Motion to approve um by Councel McKe, seconded by Councel Jacobs.
All those in favor? Any opposed? Okay, moving on. Thank you for your patience, Sarah. So, if I recall, we had some um some line items that just were not matching up in Munice with what you had, and I believe I'll let you speak to it, but I think we've for the most part resolved those.
Do we have for mic having me back there? Um, I uh want to open by thanking um my excellent colleagues in the human resources department, director Patty McGawan and assistant director Laura Power, as well as Paul Dea Barbara and Munifi and James um Dennis, the manager of accounts, as well as the auditor.
Um we've worked diligently to um correct the bookkeeping errors that um we saw la at the last um presentation and I believe you all have the amended budget in front of you and I'm happy to answer any questions.
Are there any questions? Do we need the motion to accept? No. Can I ask one question? Sure. Can you tell me which line because I didn't have a chance to go really quick which line items they were right.
Which line items they were start um um the ones that you all had questions about were Thank you. um 512 765 512060 uh and 512038. So if you look at your amended budget tonight, 512060 has been removed.
That person that is actively in that role belonged in 512765 and is now housed there. Okay. Is that the only one that changed or 512038 in the 5-year look back was showing no expenses. The head archist, the department head of that archives and special collections department should have resided in there.
She was promoted out of the reference department and had her salary was appearing in the reference department and is now appropriately reallocated to um 512038. I don't have my original budget. So did that change the line items for the 2027 proposed the 400 for personal services for the 4,22874?
Do you know? Um I'm sorry your question. So the question is when you took out those salaries and put them in the right places did it change the bottom line for personal services for 4,22874. So madam madam auditor auditor has Thank you.
Um so councelor Mahoney um when you're looking at the fiscal 27 budget nothing changed in that budget. What was done? There was some accounting changes made um in the fiscal 26 budget. So your year-to- date budget reports are now reading how they actually should be standing, right?
So then I have a different question for you and that question is in fiscal year 26 when we just had the transfers Monday night um it showed approximately $200,000 transferred from the library personal services.
Do you know what was what made up that 200,000? I I wasn't aware. I'm not sure. I mean, I would assume it was because that we moved the people's lines back and forth. Are you saying there was a cut or Well, I can move that over to to the auditor.
So, in the auditor, yes. So, if you think back to Monday night's meeting with the year and transfers, I believe at the last budget hearing, the director said there was some open positions that were not filled yet.
So, that led to some breakage in the personal service line for fiscal 2026. And I'm assuming that is where they came up with the $200,000 from that. So, could you tell me which positions are open? Yes, there is the branch librarian at Wallist is open.
The teen and adult services librarian at Adam Shore and a full-time custodian position and that adds to 200,000. I'm sorry. And that adds up to 200,000. I don't have the numbers exactly in front of me for that.
Are they and they're still open? Do you have them filled at all or We're working with the union to get them posted and filled. How long have they been open for? Um the teen and adult services at Adam Shore has been only open for a little while.
The young woman that was in that position um transferred laterally to the same position in North Quinzy. Mhm. Um, and we are working with the union to look at that job description to make sure it's um, accurately reflecting the needs of the Adam Shore community.
Um, the custodian position just opened up. I couldn't say exactly, but very recently um, we had a new hire who had to depart due to health issues. Um, and the Wallist branch librarian has been open for a little a little bit.
I couldn't say exactly how long. Um, we're also working with the union to talk about what leadership of that um, department needs to look like moving forward. Okay. All right. Thank you. So, if we have no further questions, do we have a motion to Oh, council.
Hang on one second. Go ahead. Council Yuan. Thank you, Madam Chair. So um I have a question about item 512038. So in the budget book um 38. So the actual spending 2025 budget and 2026 is both zero in the in the old file.
But in the new file now become 2026 actual spending become 8 83,000 685. How how does that happened? Because the last meeting still actual spending is zero. Why just after two weeks it's spending 83,685?
So isn't that the correction we were looking for? Yeah. Pardon? I believe that was the correction we brought her brought her back for was to correct that because it was zero and now they've they've moved that position around if I'm not mistaken.
The current book there was there was somebody in reference that was moved out. You have to look at the Yeah, this is that's right Sarah. Right. There was somebody in reference that was moved out. Correct.
51203. This is this page the children's library page is different than that page. That's why we had to vote this page. But that position was was filled for two years. Then then just filled that position was that position belongs to our head archavist.
She has been working in that position for almost four years. She was the bookkeeping on it was inaccurate. So she during that time was being categorized as a reference librarian and not as a department head with her own line.
So we fixed that last week and that's why the new budget reflects the accurate spending for that. So the difference will be in five 5120. Oh okay. So three position they all changed. One is 512038 and 512765.
That's also changed. Okay. I want Okay. So the new budget the I think maybe the auditor might be able to clarify for council the un um the part of the thing we this person has been in the position for four years but due to the being charged to an incorrect line for the past four years that's why you're seeing a zero balance in those line that line.
So the historicals we cannot go back and change because the fiscal years have closed. But going forward from fiscal year 26 on you will see that this person is now being charged to the correct line. Okay.
My question is how come it last for four years didn't get corrected? If if if this position is c categorized wrong why last four years that's just create a confusion. Correct. Um I can't answer to the fact why it has gone on for four years.
All I can say is that we have worked diligently since our last meeting making sure that everyone is being charged in the correct line. So in order to move forward with this particular line item, we've we've changed the line item.
We've changed the employee in her master file to be charged to the correct account. Okay. So currently still have a three position open correct? That would be up to the directed answer I believe. So yes okay in the last year because these three positions open and filled so you have a transferred money 200,000 is correct transfer.
So if for two years you don't need this position for two years you don't you didn't fill this position means those position are not so urgent or necessary so I would like to make a cut of this position what position are you referring to the position you didn't fill for two years what position is that which line item the chief category one 038 somebody in that position councelor, there is somebody currently in that position.
They've been in the position for four years. So, if you look at the year-to-ate budget report, you'll see that I believe $85,000 has been expended and there is currently only $4,300 left in the line, which will be expended within the next two two weeks left in the fiscal year.
So my question is $200,000 transferred the last year is from which it is not from this line. It would not it it could have reflected in this line but it wasn't reflected accur accurately from this particular line because there was a person that is this position chief cataloger.
Um, Debbie. So then from which position though those $200,000? It it could be made up of various lines within the budget. So there could be that $200,000. I don't have the detail as to what makes that up, but it could have been from various lines within the budget to total 200 to total $200,000 because they're basically when they do the year-end transfers and I could be incorrect.
what they normally do is they will look at the bottom line like in this case there's 488,315 left which is 88% um that has been used in the budget. So I'm assuming that an analysis was done and when they did the analysis they found various lines that make up that $200,000 cost.
So I'm little confused because when President Mahoney asked that 200,000 is from three open position and the director of libraries said yes. So I assume that 200,000 money transferred up from that three unfilled position.
So so it could be because there have been unfilled positions. However, in the position that you're talking about, 512038, the chief cataloger, that position has been filled and it has been filled for the past four years.
Council McKe, I know you have had your hand up. Do you want to? So, councelor Yuen, I just want to what I understood from director Simon was that the positions that are open now include um a teen adult librarian at Adam Shore because that person moved to North Quinsey and and um a custodian just opened up.
Um and then the probably it sounded like the longest one that's been open is the Wallist branch librarian. So, those are the three I think that may make up the 200,000. Would you like to make a motion to accept?
Oh, I Jacobs. Sorry, going back to the archavist librarian. Um, how many archavist librarians are there? Three. There are three. Okay. And, um, I see. And there were three in 2026 and there were three in 2025.
Um there have been three positions. I don't recall. Are they union positions or are they appoint there? I just um I just was curious is um all positions at the library union with the exception of the three administrators and the executive assistant to administer because I see here that it looks like the archavist librarian like year to date is 125,679 and in that budget last year you only had 123,035 budgeted.
So we're over budget there and um in the next budget it's going up you know quite substantially 240,000 724 which is an increase of about 14 uh you know that's an increase quite a bit. So I just was curious if you know I know that the um union employees got like a 3% raise that seems more than 3%.
They are both relatively new employees, so they're still in the step raise rotation. So, they're also receiving both of them step raises, right? And and you know, I know that some of these um individuals are being paid out of like other line item budgets in the past.
I know, you know, because they were being charged from the wrong account. So, were those are those accounts now going to have overages in them because we put them in the right accounts or was money is money going to be reduced from that?
No, everything should be zeroing out now that it's all fixed. Okay. Thank you. Sure. We're fixing it for fiscal year 27 and we can't we can't do anything about how it was booked, which line items in 20 in prior years, council Ryan.
Do you um Thank you. Um I had a question on line item 570302. That's the old colony network. Is that the internet access to the library? partially. Yes. Yeah. And um do you track the number of uh accounts that go through that network?
Um I'm not entirely sure what you mean, but I can tell you a little bit about how the network functions that might help. Um absolutely. So, we pay an annual fee to the Old Colony Library Network to become a member so that we can um so Quinsey residents can borrow um materials from all the other libraries.
So, that cost covers a lot of our internet and IT services. Um you'll note that we don't have any municipal funding for it of any kind in the library budget. We absorb all of that ourselves partially through OLN um and uh the delivery, right?
because the books come and go all across the state. So, as long as we remain a library in good standing with the Mass Board of Library Commissioners, um we can borrow books from anywhere in the world.
Okay. Um and then there's quite a bit to it. So, then um they um they provide all of our databases. So, anytime you go on our on our website and want to do research like old issues of the Quinsey Sun or the Patriot Ledger, we pay um through them at a heavily discounted rate because we purchase collectively as a network rather than individually as the 28 libraries.
So, that's that's some of it. Um and if you were asking, do we track I mean, we know how many library cards Quinsey residents have and we know how many internet sessions people use in our buildings. I don't have either of those numbers handy, unfortunately, but if you're interested, I could get them for you.
Oh, I would be very interested. I actually have an account and I absolutely love using it. Great. So, a lot of the books that I want to borrow are always taken. We're doing the best we can. Yeah. But I do thank you for that.
I think that's a great tool for um families to have. So, I would be greatly interested in getting some uh data on how often those that's used. Okay. Sure. Thank you. Yep. Okay. If there's no further questions, council.
Thank you, madame chair. And so I have a question of item 512765 and chief tech service. So year to date, you only spend 63 63.2% of budget item. Could you explain why? Yes, the um former longtime uh reference coordinator was in that position.
Um she was promoted to deputy director and in between her departure due to promotion and the hiring of the new department head, there was a a bit of breakage. So that line um would normally be fully expended if it had been populated for the all 12 months of the year.
Uh, is that position been advertised now? I'm sorry. Uh, has that open position been advertised? Have is it filled now? Have you post that position? Have I filled it? Post. It's already filled. It's been filled since October.
So, there was a period of time where there was no one in the position and that's why there's money available because there was nobody there to pay. Okay. But it is filled now. Is that correct? Correct.
And the current three open position uh are those posted online? Not yet. How long has been those open position? Um well said when councelor Mahoney answered. I I don't know exactly. The custodian just left recently.
the um young woman that transferred from Adam Shore to North Quinsey has been over there for a couple of months and we are working um on deciding what we're doing about the leadership position at Wallist with the union and the city and and another item 512185 literacy project that you also um undispend 49 9.2% to year to date.
And could you explain that? I'm I I couldn't quite hear your question. Item 512185. Yep. Year to date, you only spend 49.2% of a budget amount. Could you explain that? Um, yes. I think this was one of the bookkeeping errors that was corrected.
That's that's the new one. That's a new one. We got it. Madam Auditor Councelor, um there was a new report run this afternoon. Um in that report shows that to date 80,454.60 has been spent. So that budget um is in that's over the budget an amount of $66,000.
So the overspent by 14,000 on Sunday openings. And that budget just updated this afternoon. Uh yes, I ran it at about 3:00 this afternoon. Are we talking about 512185 or 510? 51 510185. I thought that's what she's 512 512185y project.
Okay. 512185 is the literacy. So that budget to date 88,32358 has been spent. It's been what? Uh 88 88,323 has been spent out of that line. Did you hear Council McKe? Um, so I don't know if you heard that, Council.
88, um, 323 has been spent out of that line. Um, I I'm just going from what um the auditor was saying. We We may not have the latest I'm not sure if we have the latest. We do have the latest. the latest cuz I think well I I had stuff that I had not gotten since 300 p.m.
So if it's changed I don't know where. So those were left um we left those updated reports at the at the well okay in front of everybody's seat. They might be on our tables here. So that's okay. Um so I think we've resolved what what he asked Miss Limon to come back here for.
Yeah, it sounds like council um the auditor said that she sat down and kind of worked everything out. So going forward it should be okay. And um so I think I think everything's lined up. Might want to um I if I might make a motion to um No, wait one wait one second.
Go ahead council Yuan. Thank you madame chairwoman. My concern is if city councilors are sitting here to review budget line by line and if the accurate information only available this afternoon or just before the meeting that's very difficult for councilors to track to really doing oversight of the to review the budget.
So I think uh for the future this practice should be improved otherwise we sitting here just become ceremony say yes right if we couldn't really check it because the information just just available and it's different from what we got.
Okay. I would like to say though that I remember when we sent Miss Lyman back, I did try to make sure that all of the questions were put on the table so that we weren't debating redebating on things. And madam auditor, I'll let you speak, but I do believe that we have resolved the issues that were that were the questions we had from the last session.
And it is a little bit confusing because now it throws it throws lines off from the past with the objective to fix it going forward. Okay. And I think I think we've accomplished that. I trust Madame Auditor's um you know expertise on this matter.
So the reason why you have an updated report um that is dated that was ran this afternoon at 3:00 is when you were in the office earlier today and we were going over this budget, there was a line item in the library line that was still not booked correctly.
So I worked with the municipal finance office to get that booked so that you the council as a body would have the correct information in front of them as you looked through the reports and I made sure that at your seats that you would have that current information the most upto-date information so you could make a a decision on this budget.
Thanks you madame chair. Thank you, Susan. You're welcome. Yeah, I'm not questioning you like I'm just because you said you run this new update budget 3 p.m. this afternoon and then we got it completely new one.
So what what I reviewed before it's different. So it's make us very difficult to track. I just suggest in the future we need to improve this budget process and the budget review process so councilors can really can really do their job to review it.
We need information and earlier not just right at the meeting. That's all all I'm asking. Okay. I mean, I I think that what we were trying to do was sort of untangle some bookkeeping issues between municipal finance and and the jobs that these people hold, but um Council Mahoney, if you want to add anything to this, I just want to make sure I'm clear.
So, the package that you you gave me, Jen just gave me tonight when I came in has the most updated year-to- date, right? Okay. Is that what I'm to assume? There were three, but there were the packets.
There was a package you handed me to handed. Well, you got everything. I don't I don't know. I don't know if I have it, but I got the year to date that was in the package and I'm seeing the same thing which is spent 49.2%.
So, I guess in the in the package that you received, it should look like this in the package. That's the one I'm looking at. Hang on one second. 257, right? Yep. So I have that that's the package I have 512185 literary project librarian 179 was the original appropriation correct revised budget 179 year to date spent 88 823 correct available budget 91,000 so 49.2% 2% of the budget is still available.
Correct. So that's what I think she was asking and and that's the new year. Okay. Wait, wait one second. This is this is what came up today. This is the same question asked. Yeah. Okay. That's I just want to make sure it's 49%.
It's not 80. It's It's got two weeks left. That's what she's asking. Which line item are we talking about? 512185. The literacy project librarian. It's got 91,000 remaining in the available budget. 49.2% 2% remaining in the budget and less than two weeks to go.
So I guess the question is is what is that job? Sorry. Yes, I'm trying to put it together. As I said at the beginning, y I believe there was a bookkeeping error. We have two literacy employees. They are both now full-time.
I think they were both put in that line last year and one has now been moved back to the library assistant line where they belong. So yes, that if you're asking if that line needs to be 184,000 or whatever, um 79,000.
Yeah, it it does not needs to be 80 and I believe the proposed for this year is 95167, which is the department head rate of pay for folks at step 10. Okay. 512 So here it is 512. So the the current request in today's report in front of you all is accurate for what we need to pay the one person in that position for fiscal 27.
and some of that overage could it be accounted for in the transfers that happened on Monday night. So through madame chairwoman so currently only one position open looks like I'm sorry five 512049 this one only this one is currently open from the from the report correct Item number 512049.
Oh, we're on a new line now. You budget 57,473 and currently spend zero money. So, does that mean that that's the only position and field has currently spent zero dollars? Is that what we got 512049? Um I don't know I don't know why that is because that position uh there was breakage this year in that position.
our longtime um person retired and was replaced with an internal promotion. She works in that position full-time um in the and in the budget book. So just two weeks ago this position is budget for 128,952 and now just after two weeks this this item become 57,473.
That's a huge change. I don't know why. I believe I believe it was a byproduct of one keeping errors that we've been describing that we've corrected. So even you corrected I asked you spend zero money.
So that's that's the open position. No. Uh I I would like to clarification from auditor. I can't really speak upon open positions but so when we first had the library become before us back in May the I believe the beginning of June that line we had budgeted for fiscal 26 57,473 based on the various reports that I have since run to prepare for this meeting there is still 57,473 with zero spent out of that line.
So, what I I think again the bookkeeping piece of it um is that that person was promoted internally. They're probably still being paid out of the special library assistant line and they need to be moved to this line.
Is that something you could do would be done before June 30th or Yeah. Yes, definitely. That's different. Oh, before tomorrow budget. Oh, but this is the actual not the budget for the next year. Really difficult to track.
Councelor McGee. Um, so I I I just wanted to because it is going up to 28,952. Is that for one position or two positions? That line item for the technical librarian. Yeah. So, this one is what we did is we moved that person in into the I'm remembering now.
We moved that person into the senior library assistant pool and the two archavists are going to live there. That's sorry. This the technical librarian position was moved to the senior what? So the person that was always paid out of that technical librarian position was a senior library assistant.
And so we put them with the rest of the library assistants and the technical librarian positions, which there are two, and they both make about $64,000 a year go there. So there are two technical librarian positions and um one of them has been moved to the senior library assistant position.
There was one person in that position. Okay. and still is a person that holds that same position, but we recalog that position to be in um 512050 senior library assistant and then the archavists are going there.
So the person that was in there was making $57,000 and now there are two people in there making 64 each and the $57,000 person went to 050. Okay. So the so the the the line item for technical librarian is for two positions.
The previous person who there was only one person who was doing that job before and that person um was shifted to the library assistant. Um it was a it was a different job that that person was. It was a library assistant job, not a librarian job.
I guess I'm now I'm confused about why are there two why are there two technical librarian positions for the 2027 budget if there was only one person doing it before because they're not the same positions.
We're just using the same number. So the two people have always been there doing the job since the creation of the department. They were put in reference librarian 042. They should not have been in there because they're in a separate department.
So they got moved out to this librarian position which a non- librarian was in the position with that title. So, one of the things that's going to be completed before June 30th is going through Munis and making sure these highlevel under account information to the right of the object codes that these job titles actually match what people are doing.
They have not in a very long time. So, we're correcting that. But we were unable to get that done before this meeting because getting the bookkeeping side of it was very timeconuming and laborious. So I do apologize.
Okay. So I guess we'll we'll need to figure out this line item and why nothing has been spent out of that line item before or we have to pass this as is I suppose and then hopefully fix it in the future.
Is that right? Um, are you saying we're not going to pass this budget tonight? No, I'm I guess I'm saying how can we It sounds like there's still problems with this budget, but we have to legally pass it.
So, I guess we just have to pass it with any problems. How much money was in the How much was budgeted in 512060, which has now been removed? I think the fear is is that there's still like one position despite all the transfers that we're we're hanging on to that money.
Is that um council Mahoney? So 200,000 was transferred out of your budget. Personal line services transferred to another department to cover overages in another department. You said there's three positions that are open.
And if I am generous with the positions and I say 60 60 that's 120 that leaves us $80,000 of breakage someplace. So, I think what coun I'm not speaking for her, but I'm thinking what council was asking was, you know, she wants to make a cut of $50,000.
And I believe you probably have that in your budget to be able to do and you'll be okay. Um, but again, I'm I'm just asking you, that's why I was asking you that at the beginning is you had 200 because we we we have been doing this to everybody every budget.
Unfortunately, you come you're you're coming back after um we did the transfers. So, we're seeing that 200,000 was transferred. 60 60 is 180. I'm sorry. So 20,000 and then anytime anyone leaves. You told me it was 120.
So no, there's three. You're saying three once I have three vacant positions. So that's 180 right on the face of it. Um one's a branch librarian and one's a custodian. And between if you average those two it would be about 80 about 60.
So you're right. So, so okay. So, 60 times three. Chris and I are having mathematical problems tonight cuz I came. So, an additional 20 could easily every time someone leaves if we haven't like sometimes people leave with very little notice and don't ever come back to work.
So, we you know then are caught on our back foot of having to review the job description, send it to the union, wait for the union approval, post it. You post it internally. It takes every time somebody leaves it.
It's you don't replace them the next day. It takes months to do that. That's where your breakage comes from. It can. Yeah, it can. It's a weird job market right now. I'm not I'm gonna So, I'm going to just explain.
So, she was the one who wanted to make the cut. So, there's three positions that were um that need to be filled and we're averaging at 60. So, 180. So, we have about $20,000 of breakage that you could cut.
If that's what you want to cut, that's what I think she is. That do you understand me? I can do it if you want to. No. My main complaint is hang on a second to follow what's going on with this budget.
How often the position how often the internal employees been shift from this position to next position? We can fix that next. Yeah. Because everyone can see it's so difficult to follow like oh this position already changed and dramatically change just within two weeks.
So I don't know how how can I say yes to this budget. Great. I'm just going to I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna just say and we're going to make a cut of $20,000 in the p personal services line. I don't think it's going to probably impact that much.
So, I'm going to make a motion to cut $20,000. Which line item is that? It's not a line item. Taking it for the bottom line. Oh, I can't take it from any specific line item. We had 200,000 in breakage that came back and used to transfer into other accounts.
We had three positions open, 180. There's about $20,000. We're going to cut $20,000 from the bottom line and I think we'll be okay in this budget. So, $20,000 from the personal service line of the public libraries.
Okay. So, we have a motion to cut $20,000 from the bottom line of the budget. Um, personal services. Personal services. Um, we don't need a second, right? All those in favor or do we need a roll call?
Do a roll call. Roll call, please. Council Ash, yes. Council Deon, yes. Council Hugley. Council Jacobs, yes. Council Mahoney, yes. Council McKe, yes. Council Ryan, yes. Council Yuan, yes. Chairman Riley, yes.
Eight members. Okay. So, if we are ready to entertain a one more thing, so for next year, it sounds like you did a good team work this year, but if we could next year, I I would I I would ask you to try to do this the same thing because I think it's going to help you out tremendously.
And I know that this isn't that your area of expertise is not una so I I understand that. Okay. No. And I thank you all for your patience as we work through this um difficult situation. Thank you. So do we have a motion to accept as amended?
As amended. Motion to approve as amended. All those in favor? I I oppose. I I can't say yes to this budget. Maybe next year. So So you're a no. I'm no. Okay. And then we need a motion to um to approve.
Or is that all? That was as amended. Okay. So, we're good. Okay. Thank you. You're welcome. We're all set. Thank you. Okay. Next up is the downtown district. Chris is going to do, Mr. Walker. Through you, Madam Chairwoman.
Thank you very much. Uh the body has in front of it uh as requested um diff related offsets to the downtown division budget. Um this is related to a good deal of input provided uh to the administration uh by council Mahoney uh and some collaboration uh as well.
Uh the bigger picture here is again based upon the input provided by this council specifically councelor Mahoney um municipal finance will be setting up as we go forward a uh diff capital projects account where the revenue from diff will be set aside the debt service the ban premium and uh any offsets such as that are included in this budget will be paid for from that.
uh that way ensuring that there is uh clarity on on diff the re the actual revenues which this body has and what it pays for on a year-to-year basis. Again, I appreciate the the council's input on that on this uh and hopefully this is a uh positive path forward.
Thank you, Mr. Walker. Um, council Mahoney, since you brought this forward, do you have any questions or No, comments on how they proposed to account for this. The mayor, you're okay. You're okay. All right, mayor, you're okay.
So, no, I don't I I did ask administration I asked this back when we first put this into the budget. I never wanted it paid out of the general fund. How much is the savings out of the general fund for the next year?
Is it though? Just I don't have the old budget. Sorry. I think it's around 900,000. Roughly 900. So 900,000 is going to be taken out of the budget and it's going to be paid for t tak taken out of the general obligation budget and be paid for from the dip.
So um and the work will continue. So but I think council gay has a question. So thank you very we did work collaboratively didn't we Chris? Yes we did. Maybe next time it will be with the mayor. So we need a motion to accept or did you want to did you want to speak before that council McKe?
So, um, we sort of wrapped everything up so fast last time we didn't have a motion. Oh, did you do the after we accept it? After we accept the cut to the overtime. Is that Yes. Was that okay? No, we're going to accept the budget and then we'll make the cuts.
There was one cut that did pass at the last meeting that we'll revote. We'll revisit that. Yes. But there was one motion that councelor Mahoney had made, but then we we ended before it was. So, I just want to We have to revote them.
We have to revote them. Okay. Okay. So, could we have a motion to accept the amended budget? I'll make a motion. We haven't We haven't cut them. We have to cut them. So, so just for clarification, hang on a second.
It's just so you guys can cut it. Yeah. So, the budget what transfers it's taken out. So, we have 9 nothing's been cut from. So, the whole budget goes into diff and now we have to go back to those line items to make those cuts.
Correct. We need to accept this. So, and then we're going to accept this. So, so the first thing is to accept the change in the budget that it will be no longer paid by the general obligation and paid for by the DI.
That's a form of a motion. Okay. We have a motion to accept the revised budget. All those in favor? I. Any opposed? Okay. And now we need to revisit line item 530. I don't remember. Which council Mickey motion to cut $20,000 from contracted.
Okay. Yes, I make that motion to cut $20,000 from contracted services. We had we had voted on that before. We had voted on it. Yes. Okay. Do we need a roll call for that? Okay. All those in favor? I I Any opposed?
Okay. Do we have a discussed last time? That had passed last time. Okay. Then you had motioned to cut 50,000 from overtime, but then we put it on. Okay. We never got that. Okay. So, I would have cut 50,000 for overtime.
Pardon me. So, I wanted to cut $50,000 from overtime. Okay. So, we have a motion to cut What line item is that? The overtime 510 51 0130 overtime. $50,000. We did not vote on that last time. We were We deliberated on it.
Um, all those in favor or do we need a roll call vote? Do we should we can we bring her up? 50,000. No, that doesn't sound Sorry, that's the whole Sorry, I don't know what your cup is going to be. Okay.
But I have to go and do some work. So, um, can I say something? Hold on one second. Hold on one second. Yes. I guess you can say something. I don't have I don't have any. Yes. So, um I looked and it uh I can't remember what the number was that councelor Mahoney had suggested, but the maximum used in the last 5 years in that line is um 24,425 and it's been budgeted $50,000 for the last three years.
So, I guess I'm going to make a motion to cut uh $25,000 from that overtime line. Okay. motion to cut that by 25,000 to 25,000. Any discussion on that? Council Debana. Uh thank you, Madam Chair. Just revising this particular budget line item.
I I don't know if anybody had any correspondence on whether that will be used in the particular new year. I thought we spoke about or the director spoke about there's possible overtime that needs to be kind of there.
So, I just want some clarification maybe if she wants to come forward and kind of explain cuz we're we're revisiting this one. Hi, Mary. I just have a question on this overtime. I know we discussed it last time, but I just want to revisit it.
Um, it's at $50,000. Um, they want to make is a cut. What's the cut? 25 25,000. Where does that put you on this particular item line item? So, I think I explained that from now until July 1st, we have two watch parties this weekend.
Kidfest from 12:00 to 8. We've got um holiday to cover and some vacations. So, that I think we said that was like 6,500. So, 30,000. I think the original cut ask was 20,000. Can Can you Can you withdraw that and do 20?
But this is for July 1st, 2026. This is the end of this fiscal year. I will use that another $6,500 in overtime. Oh, so if she uses that in this year, she'll be at 30,000. 30,000, right? I would assume that she'd go 30 next year.
Do you want to revise your motion? Council McKise. Hang on one second. Hang on. Go ahead. Yep. I make a motion to revise my previous motion and um cut this uh overtime line to by $20,000 to 30,000. To 30,000.
Okay, I think that's reasonable. Um, any discussion on the revised motion? Do I need a roll call? All those in favor? I opposed. None. I won't be opposed on this one. Um, councelor De Boner is opposed on that.
Anyone else? Okay. Um, so are there any other U modification? Motion to approve the budget as amended. All those in favor? I opposed. Excellent. Okay. Thank you, Mary. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Uh, next up we have the uh short-term debt, Mr.
Delibra. Shortterm or long term? Good evening. Am I the wrong one? Okay. The city's contractual obligation on the short-term interest line is 15,833,000. $818 uh for fiscal 27. Any discussion on the short-term debt?
Oh, council. Council Mahoney. Sorry, I have to get my We're on short term, right? I was ready for longterm first. I don't know why. I I was too. Huh? I was too. Oh, okay. That's I was like, why why am I so out of sorts tonight?
All right. So, we are on long term. I mean, we're in short term. I'm still talking long term. We have a lot of um paper up here, so I apologize. I still don't want my still on my paper budget. All right.
So, I still have the wrong thing. Maybe you want you want to go somebody else while I'm trying to figure out where my paperwork is. Oh, yeah. So, um did you say at the first meeting that it needed to be adjusted by 812 6:15?
I did. So, the revised number is the 15 million. um 833 817 I think originally it was 16 million64641 been adjusted and that was because it was inclusive of water and sewer short-term debt that's not what you originally okay so that was so we have to we have to adjust this to that we have to accept the adjustments so we can I make a motion to adjust the short-term interest to the new proposed budget that's in front of us tonight okay motion to um talking about short-term projects Motion to revise the budget to reflect the number here before us.
Any discussion on the motion? None. Seeing none. I have a question. So shorten shorten that. Uh thank you Mr. Babar. We just met. We had a nice meeting today council discussed for two hours. So you did say you corrected the number uh 2027 proposed uh interest on note from 16 million something last time to the 15 million.
Yeah. Could you or from from 60 million 646 change it to 50 million A33 uh could you explain what uh what Sure. Uh the initial budget that was published that you received in I believe May 4th. Uh that number for the general fund short-term notes interest was inclusive of the sewer the interest on the sewer notes and the interest on the uh water enterprise notes.
Um upon realizing that um we took that out put it in the right spot in water and sewer enterprise and we're able to reduce the budget by by that amount. Okay. Thank you. I just want to know why the number change.
Okay. So, any further discussion on this? Council Ryan. Thank you, Madam Chair. So, Paul, just to be clear, uh what was originally on the um note on the account was the 16 million. And so, you took out figures for water and sewer.
Now, it's 15833818. Right. That's correct. Okay. Any further discussion, Council Mahoney? So, I went back and I looked at the ban interest for fiscal year 27. The ban interest um there's two ban interest.
There's actually three. So the total ban interest was 2615160829 less the bond premiums of 6434888.15 um and another bond premium of 43256349 and the net interest that I came up with was 15,68415665. Your original budget request was 16 million 646432 which gave me a difference of 962267.27.
you've adjusted for the water and store that you mentioned and now you're at 15833818 and now the difference the there's still 149662 that's above what the debt service that I can tell should be being paid.
So you have two bands total 26151 less your bond premiums which is a net of 15 which is a net net interest of 158 68415665 and you have 15883818 and I'm getting that from Hilltop securities that that that's where I'm getting those numbers from and that's typically what would go for your short-term interest.
So I'm wondering what the 149662 is that I'm not sure if if you want to cut it cut it and if we're going to need it then we'll come back and ask for an appropriation. So I am going to cut it just because just do the first one first.
What's the first one? The 8 the 812 the 812. We accepted the budget though. That was the 812. It wasn't I don't have a vote. We accepted the budget that was presented to us that has the Okay. So, we can do it again.
We're going to accept the budget as presented as the change to 15833818. We did she accept this budget or not? I don't think we accepted it. Okay. So, I'm asking making a motion to accept the budget of 15833818.
Okay. Motion to accept. Motion to accept. All those in favor change in the budget. I Any opposed? No. And now I'm going to make a cut for 149662 because the interest that I have added up and I will um happily send it to you tomorrow.
Um adds up to 15,684 15665 and there's 149662 that's in this payment that shouldn't be. So okay. So can you just 149662? So council that was 149 682 149662 66 62 So we're further reducing the same line item we just voted on by another 149 662 bring it down to 15 and some change.
Yep. Jen's going to do the math. Okay. Any discussion on that motion? Council Devana. Thank Thank you, Madam Chair. Just for clarification. So 149662 is that correct Mr. Deabra? That that I'll need to verify with the uh strategic asset manager who provided these figures to um Michael Roland who was building the budget.
So I'll follow up and and I'll follow up with Hilltop Securities and we'll get the number correct and if I have to come back to the body to adjust that in the fall um I will. Okay. Um, I thought I know you don't know, but how can can you guess that that's the right number or you just don't know?
Well, I'm looking at a couple of different schedules now. So, the Hilltop set to over two or three. So, I will have a phone call with Cinder Mcnney at Hilltop Securities. Um, but for the sake of getting the the budget passed, I I I would accept that cut and ask the body that if it does need to be increased that I can come back in the fall and ask for that as these are contractual obligations and we should get it right.
Um, through you to to um counselor or president Mahoney. Um, where did you get this number from? Is it Hilltop? Hilltop Hilltop is online. You can get it. So, ban interest for fiscal year 27 as I said was 8,511 10910.
Then there's going to be another ban interest for fiscal year 2027 for 17,640499119 for a total ban interest of 2615160829 less your bond premiums of 6,43488.15 and less your second bond premiums um of $4,32563.49 49 for a total interest of 1568415665.
With the new balance that we have here, it's going to be 149662 less than what the new budget was created at. Any further discussion? It's a premium to pay down, right? Pay down. So, we have a motion to um reduce that line item.
Any any further discussion? Okay. What's that final number? I think I mean 149 662 is the cut 156. Yeah. 15684156 is the new budget line item and change 65 cents. All those in favor? I I'm going to be against that.
I don't feel comfortable with the math. So that's right. You wanted him to guess. Council Bon is a no on that. Any anyone else opposed? All those are in favor. Okay. Eight to one. Okay. Was that and a motion to pass the um budget as amended?
Motion to pass budget as amended. Motion by council Mahoney. Um all those in favor. Or do we need a roll call? We don't need a roll call. I everyone. Okay. Terrific. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Delibra.
Was that it? We didn't have Do we have longterm? No, just longterm. There is. Why do I know Longterm and U pension retirement? Did anything change in the long? Anything changed in the original submission?
Nothing changed on the We just didn't just didn't do it. Okay. Council Mahoney. Okay. So, nothing changed on this. So, I do have a couple of questions. Um, this might be long-term fiscal year long-term.
Um, so your fiscal year long-term debt requests increased by 2.9 million over fiscal year 26. And the four new fiscal year 27 debt payments appeared to total um approximately diff was 220. The second diff was 80 million 80,000.
Central Middle School was 80 and the roadway sidewalks was um 1 1959147. So the new fiscal year payments is approximately um let make sure I'm doing this. Long-term payments is approximately 2349392. Can the administration explain the increase in and exceeds the new debt payments by approximately $558,75?
I guess I'm not following the question. Council, so we're talking about long-term debt. Yep. And when I'm looking at this, I'm looking at your I'm I'm actually lost to myself at this point because I know I had this written out somehow.
Hold on for one second. I got it out of paper again and I had it nice and neat so I could explain this to you because I knew it was going to be messy. Well, first maybe I can just go backwards for a second.
Um, this might might solve some stuff, too. Um, in fiscal year I'm going to go backwards to fiscal year 26. In fiscal year 26 to date reports show a negative balance. So, I went on the the debt service online and I pulled this up.
I don't I don't know what Susan has, but I pulled this off of the debt service. You gone to the um onto the line. Your principal long-term debt was um is a negative by 205 and your long-term interest debt is negative by 606, giving us a deficit of $811.79 um in fiscal year 26.
And I'm just That's correct. There was a debt payment made on the 15th um that I have to investigate to see if that is a true uh deficit uh in this line and if the budget it wasn't budgeted correctly last year.
Um but yeah that that there was a debt payment that went out on 615. Okay. Principal and interest. So that's where you'll see that. Okay. So then from there when you take then I then I then I did some importions the so that's that was was part of the the question that I had but then when I went back and I added up your 77794 and I was subtracting what the debt was I came up with a 558,075 as a deficit here too.
So I mean as a as a that you're overbudgeted here for this. So, I'm just wondering I'm wondering where you're getting your long-term, short-term obligation bonds and other other things because I think something came off in fiscal year 26, which was a long-term legal bond for about 308 that was put on the books on June 15, 20 June 16th, 2019, I think.
And the last payment of that was made in June of 2026 and it was $514,000. That's what I I remember because I don't have the page that I need here. Was $514,000 was made. That was the last payment of that bond.
So that 514,000 probably shouldn't be carrying over and I can't tell because this is all bundled together is carrying over into your new debt service which is when I subtracted when I had when I had my math that I was able to show and talk about um it was showing me that that 77594 was adding up to about 558 which I think it's because there's an extra extra thing carrying forward from the the long-term that was the um legal legal note that was taken out for 3.8 in 2019.
Okay. So, so what I think may have happened, uh, I sent out a spread, uh, an email yesterday to all the councils, and I think you would have received, um, a breakdown of the debt and that that spreadsheet, it's colorcoded.
There's orange and blues and greens and so forth on it. Uh, in that spreadsheet that we received from Hilltop Securities, um, I believe that may have been dated. Um, what date did you say that payment went out?
The ban was the It wasn't a ban. It was a um It was long-term debt and it was 308 and the last payment was I believe it was either it was this quarter of um 2026. It was fiscal year 2026 and it was 500 I want to say it was 510,000.
It was the last payment of that that I think the date on that spreadsheet from Hilltop Securities with the breakdown of our debt was dated June 4th. So, if that payment went out afterwards, it may not have been it may still have been included in the debt service as June 4th is what I'm saying.
Okay. So, this is why I think there's a there's an extra payment. I just wish I could find because I I had it all written down. It might be here. Let's see. Um, yeah, it's the I just have it as um I don't have the I did the math separately, but I have it as 514,000 on a June 20 June on a 2019 judgment bond and that was the last one for fiscal and it's being carried over and reflected in fiscal year 27.
So, um, to date the report shows negative balances for the fiscal year 26. That's not what I'm looking for, but I'm looking for fiscal year 27. That payment should probably be taken off. And and you're approximately 558,075 over in the debt service lines for the current expenses for fiscal year 27.
So, I'm looking to cut that, too. Okay. I I would say that's fine. It could be a similar situation as uh with the short term. No, I understand. So, I could be back in the falls and we actually needed that.
And here's here's the backup. That's okay if we do. It's just it's just an odd thing because usually this is something that usually there's a backup like you this is just how we do it. So we did a backup and you kind of can look at these things.
I was having to go on and I took some of the stuff that you sent to me today and then I went on um I went on to see when things were coming up rolling off for certain things. You can look at that through going to forget Emma or Ella or something.
I don't know. But anyway, I was looking at that and I was coming up with the 5148800 definitely was the last payment last year. And when I was doing the math here, same thing I was doing with the short-term debt.
I was coming up with the five. I was coming up with 558, but it would be okay if we were to cut it to the 514 just that payment or 500 500. I'd like to make a motion to cut interest. Are those on two different line items?
Nope. It's it's 5. It's a It's just the total expense line. $500,000 of the total expense line for because that that was cut out in judgment that that issue that bond issue ended and it's being carried over into this next budget.
Okay. So, you're motioning to cut by 558,000. How much? Just 500. I'm going to cut 500. Just keep it. Yeah. It's going to come from the current expense line because I I don't have it as specific because it's a bond that's coming off the books.
So, I don't have it as being something specific, but when I added up the bonds, it came out to it's coming out to 558, but I'll leave it at 500 over just So, a motion to cut that by 500,000. Um, just my two cents is if we cut it, you're going to you're going to figure out if we if we're shorten your money.
If we leave it in, we're never going to figure it out. If we need to, it's a contractual obligation to pay the debt service. So, it'll get straightened out. If if it's short, it'll get straightened out.
Yep. Any discussion on the motion? Council un. Oh, I have a comment. Not on this motion. I I just have a comment after this. Okay. Okay. Oh, you want me to say now? I can say. Well, if it's on the motion, I' I'd like to try to take the vote on that.
Then I hold on just before he leave, I want to say. Okay. So, we have a motion to cut the line by 500,000. Any further discussion on the motion? Council Devana. Thank Thank you, Madam Chair. If it's contractual, it has to be paid.
Is that correct? That's that's correct. So, that's why I'll be back in front of the body. If if if the numbers are incorrect. Okay. Um, if Council Mahoney is correct, then I won't be So, it has to be paid regardless whether to be cut or you got to come back.
That's got to be paid. Yes, it has to be paid. Okay. I just that's that's the clarification I was looking for. Thank you. And he'll come back before the body and we will have to approve the change because it is contractual.
Right. And if it's the bond that council Mahon is referring to, um we'll have plenty of plenty of time to correct this. I can come back in September. Okay. Any further discussion on the motion? All those in favor?
I. Any opposed? Okay. Wonderful. Council, did you have a Yeah, just I have a short comment. Uh I would like to thanks uh Mr. Barbara and Miss Susan the auditor spend two more hours this morning and and help me like clarify a lot of of my questions and uh um also like uh we compared the my numbers and your numbers.
We both agree the current city debt is a $2 billion. So um just want to let resident know and let the city councelor know. So the we compared our numbers. So the current debt if you include the and authorized and insured depth the city is reach $2 billion debt.
I just want to just a little bit under. Yeah. Can you tell them what you're reading? Oh, so anybody on the council can read the report because it's not Oh yes, we we were uh provided this hilltop security uh report in April and there are like a 427 pages we have to really go through to dig to to get this number.
So uh this page 295 and uh in section 1046 showed the London debt is 1 bill362 million 912350 and then you have a and authorized and issued the depth 708.6 6 million. If you add these two together is 2 billion71 million 512 350 that because this this document is dated June 30th 2025 and reviewed on February 2026.
So this number a little bit different from your number the currently number but your number added together still point still added together still have a $2 billion debt that's what we discussed this morning right right and that that's correct and in the email that I sent with the uh debt service backup there is a letter in there from Hilltop uh securities where the letter is dated June 16th 2026 and it's much easier easier read than the where you found it, but uh it's it's a two-pager and um it's it's there as well.
Uh that letter uh from the finance advisor and you sent only list 1 billion812 million and 746,790 790. So that's a little bit confusing because when we add our number together is $2 billion because she hers didn't include another $181 million authorized but and issued bond.
I just want to clarify this because this morning when we talk about you add your number is also two billion dollar. Two billion. Yeah. Okay. Council Mahoney. And just for clar clarification, when you go out for debt services, although we were telling the city of Quinsey, and I'm not blaming anyone on this, Paul, but when we telling the city of Quincy, we had 1.3 plus the 58 of short-term, and that's where we were getting the 1.8.
And we were getting the 1.8 since last October when we were all running for office. I think it was 1.6. Now it's 1.8. And we asked at that debt presentation, we asked, "Is that it?" Nobody gave us a peep.
And I have to say when I was looking at and I was this is a Friday on my ride up to New Hampshire for fun. I was reading that report and I saw the 708 and I was my head blew up because I was like there's 200 missing.
So that's really the thing that's frustrating to this council. We that's and and I'm just going to say this because we're and I realize there's other people in your department that does it. We're asking for this information.
We're asking for this the the mayor and the administration to bring it to us so that we can make a a really intelligent decision when we're making decisions, whether it's ENC or fire gear or anything we're doing and to have your consultants in front of us and to have them not give us a a a forecast that they should be giving to you or to tell us that the city's in great shape and it's got tremendous flexibility and it doesn't matter about having a downgrade in S&P because we can make it up and then having them finally say at the end, what you have to do is build your reserves and maybe use your excess levy, which means tax everybody.
That's not a good place to be. And you know, I realize that there's a lot of people out there just calling us saying you made the wrong decision, but we have $2 billion worth of debt. And we didn't get that information up here.
We had to dig. And that's why I was saying it was like forensic accounting that we've been doing. I have to say that I kind of enjoy it because that's the stuff I like to do. But and you know, other people like to read novels.
I like to see the math. But at the same time, at the same time, that's what we're frustrated about. It's not necessarily you, Paul. It's just frustration. And and even that letter that Hilltop sent today that you sent to us, it's only a two-pager.
They omitted it. And it's I don't know why they're doing that because it it's it's not doing them any good. It's certainly making me feel like they're just perpetually giving us wrong information when there are other reports telling us that it's there.
Unless Unless the city is I could be wrong, unless we've rescended it. Are we rescending the 200 million 200 million that we have out there that's just waiting to be spent? Do we know that? Are those projects going to happen?
No, I know. I'm asking. We haven't bonded that yet. Are we going to Right. It's actually 185 million, but that's close enough to two, right? I'm rounding. No, but some some of that some of like the Squanum School.
There's there's projects out there that we you know we will be gathering some of that authorization and banning it and then but once it's once it's approved from this council doesn't matter what year it was approved once it's approved it's there for you to spend you'd have to come back to tell us we're asking you what the debt is in the city and we're getting peacemail it's 1.6 it's 1.8 even last year when we were presenting the budget when you were presenting the budget we said we had $1.6 $6 billion worth butt worth of worth of debt.
It should have been 1.8 because that report was already out. That's all I'm saying. So, it it's just really discouraging to be up here and then to be said to be told we're not collaborating. I think we are I mean two hours in your offices today.
Susan was there. I've been in your office. We've been I think we've been working pretty well together, but we're not getting the information that we're asking for in a timely manner. And when we get the information, it's omitting some things.
And that's where the frustration comes. And this isn't towards you. Again, it sounds like it's towards you. I'm just trying to explain that because I did field an awful lot of phone calls. I had a lot of great phone calls, people thanking me and I had people, you know, basically calling me saying, "Why do you hate the mayor?" And I'm like, "I've never ever said that." And I don't I really don't.
But what I can tell you is that I work really hard when I work in this council to make sure that the cities and the taxpayers are represented. And that's what I do. So, I appreciate council councelor Yuen coming up coming to your office and talking about it, but I'm glad I had the opportunity to mention it, too.
I do thank you for the hard work you do because you don't have an easy job. So, thank you. Thank you both for digging into all of this and getting the clarification. So, if there's no further discussion, we can entertain a motion to accept this budget as amended on the long-term debt.
Motion to approve. Motion to approve. Any discussion on the motion? All those in favor? I. None opposed. Excellent. Okay. So, moving on to retirement and pensions. Pensions. Paper. Paper. More paper. Okay.
Any discussion on the pension line item? Council Mahoney, I just said to Chris, I had nothing to I have nothing to say about pensions. I just have one question. Don't you hate when that happens to me?
Um, it really isn't about the pension budget though. It's where do we stand on the actuary study? Okay. I just You're ready for me. I love it. No, we on the Millman uh actuary study. Um I got an update today.
We should have it in early July. So it, you know, at first we hoped it would be reducing the FY26 contribution a little bit lower. Uh unfortunately, we they won't have it in time. That payment has to go out soon, but it still could reduce the FY27 uh contribution once we receive it.
They're according to Milleman, they're waiting on union contract information so they can get a better sense of the salary increase assumptions that they use in their model. Um they also have questions regarding um retirements and terminations.
Uh currently they're they're asking why are they being measured uniformly at the beginning of the year when a minyear um measurement is more common place uh more common practice, sorry. Um they're questioning some of the mortality assumptions.
Um they're saying that this the assumptions that Stone is using is different than what Milleman would have expected. And their last question that they they need to have answered is they um the current salary scale only shows initial increases inflation.
It does not account for any step increases that some employees may receive along the way. So, you know, these are very minor questions that they have and I think they they'll probably have them answered pretty quickly and that's why I'm optimistic that cautiously optimistic that we'll be receiving something in July.
So, so you think sometime in July is what you're thinking? That's what I think. Yes. Okay. When did you I'm just going to ask this question because this is this is one of those things that bugged me. When did we think we were going to get it originally?
like when when they first announced it last November, December when you cut the budget. I I I think we were we thought we were going to receive this around March is what I think what I recall. Okay. But just like hiring people, it takes longer.
Some of these reports take longer. Um I don't have anything other questions and I I'm not going to try to prevent anybody from asking any questions, but I'm going to say motion to approve and people want to Okay, so we have a motion to approve the culture of the UN.
I I still can ask questions. Sure. Okay. And just some questions we discussed this morning. So we we discussed a lot of about um enter enterprise fund even though it's not related to this long-term debt but it's it's still the debt.
So um you send all the counselors the letter from the regional manager director sincere miss sincere's letter u list about the all those long-term debt shorten that and she categorized uh what's what's a tax supported debt what's a selfsupported debt so we are on the pension item Oh yeah and I I know because I want to clarify and so this this is not about I just clarify because she sent the email to all the counelors.
So she list the selfsupported that council and we we are on the pension item though we've already covered the lo the debt. Okay we've moved on to the pension. That's why I said I'll just make a comment after you this.
Can I Yeah, but that was we're on pensions. Yeah, we're on pensions. So, oh um Oh, I'm I'm not arguing about the the debt. I'm just we just we have to the the the discussion needs to be on the pension item.
Okay. So, maybe after that because then I can clarify it. Well, I don't know where you're going to clarify. We've already kind of exhausted the debt conversation. So, But when can can I clarify the letter this this finance advisor send to to us about this long-term diet short-term diet because since councelor you can reach out to me anytime you want after this meeting tomorrow uh next week I I'd be glad to sit down and discuss it with you because we discussed so that's why I understand I want to let other counelors know what's This selfsupported debt actually is not really self-supported.
Self-supported is just an accounting and legal term, not a statement that the debt is free or doesn't come from residents. I just want to make just like an example. If the city issue 100 bond 100 million dollar bond to fix the water man if they issue this bond through general fund then the property tax increase but if it's issue this bond through enterprise fund then is water water bill increase.
So doesn't matter you you issue this bond through which through which source still residents pay it from the resident pocket. So you can't just say this is so I mean you you call it a self-supporting is is a correct accounting term but is misleading to let people think oh they are this data is just self supporting it doesn't from resident pocket actually steal from resident pocket I just want to clarify this because I just gave that example if you issue that bond through the enterprise bond then Water bill increase still come from residents pocket.
I just want to listen make it clear. That's that's fine. Councelor Dana. Yeah. No, I just say did did I explain clear this self call it self-supporting debt is actually misleading because still tax still resident pay from it just pay from the increased water bill instead of property tax.
but still all from resident's pocket. I just want to make this clear. Point made. Thank you. And I know you put a lot of time into this. Both of you did today. So, thank you for that. So, we have a motion to accept the pension budget.
Council Debona. Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm big Dona tonight just for you, not little. Um, what's that? It's just a joke. um 2021 before we took this pension bomb for 475 million um we we were on the trajectory cuz every year I was up here and go wow that that's really increasing quite a bit.
2021 we're at $32.1 million coming out of this pension and I know the mayor had come to the council then and says we got a opportunity here to get a nice rate we're locked in at 2.62% 62%. Um, it went from 32.1 in 22 it went to 7.5.
In 23 it was 7.3. In 24 was 8.8. In 25 it was 4.9. 26 it was 16.1. A little bit of jump. And we're back at 9.749. If we had continued to let that sit and not jump on that pension bond, the the two 475, we'd probably be sitting at $50 million tonight trying to approve $50 million because the trajectory of the amounts that were going up every year were 23 $4 million going up.
So, I know you're going to raise your hand, but um it was it was a lot back then. And uh just to let you know, I mean, I know you're going to you're going to say something, but um just just to go from 2026 to 2027, it was lowered by 6.35 million and we're down to 9.7 today.
So, I I look at it that way. Um we we kind of had to do as a municipality something about that particular pension. This is one of the big the big fives, I guess I could call it. Um, but we were sitting in that seat.
We had an OP and people were coming up here during budget cycle talking about how are we going to fund this pension bond obligation. So, um, I I think we're in a pretty decent seat today. I I know you might feel differently, but um, I appreciate Thank you.
Thank you. You're welcome. Council Jacobs, did you want to speak? Um, I was just going to just say, you know, um, going on along with that, you know, um, the pension obligation bond, you know, it it's saving us money, but we're, you know, I hear a lot on news online um, that, you know, it's it saved us money and and it and it did.
But, you know, and they say, "Oh, we can't really count that as debt. It's still debt." And and I hear that all the time. Oh, it's not debt. It's not debt. It is debt. And even if you removed the pension obligation bond from the debt, we're still like 1.6 billion in debt.
Uh because the administration, I believe, oh that's 475 million. It's not it's, you know, that Yeah. Okay. We're still 1. So even if you remove it, we're still 1.6 billion plus in debt. So you know, I I just keep hearing all about this pension obligation bond.
We don't understand the pension obligation bond. I heard it yesterday on on We get it. There's there's a pension obligation bond like $470 million5 million. We are still even if you subtract that this city is still $1.6 billion in debt which is what we thought we were all encompassed including the pension obligation bond.
So you know a couple of months ago we were saying we're $1.6 billion in debt and everyone was saying oh it's okay you know half a million of that is a pension obligation bond. We really really really ducked out there.
But you know in reality now we are $1.6 6 billion in debt and we still have the pension obligation that we had to pay. Oh, I mean two billion. Well, two billion, but if you remove Yeah, it was still, you know, it's still there.
Point taken. Yeah. Yeah, we restructured, we restructured the debt into more favorable terms is what we did. Is there any other com discussion? Council. Oh, and just to follow up with the councel and so I I understand you said like borrow like issue the pension obligation bond at low interest rate and then invest it to uh to get the high in high return.
Right? I I understand that rationale. Uh but you have to also consider the market risk because just the one one year after you shoot this bond you lost 90 mill 90 million because the market the um co.
So maybe people can argue say oh co just once of lifetime maybe later will not but now you see we what's the gas price it's because caused by war the war can happen any day nobody can expect we will have war so I just use this to see the market risk we have to take into consideration like covid happened next year you lost $90 million in instead of you get some any return and this morning we talked um Mr.
Babar, we talked about $90 million. I was laughing and you said this is not funny. This you lost $90 million. I was not being funny about this. The reason I laugh is because I talked this $90 million lost too many times to the point when I talked it again even myself feel like laugh.
It's not it's not a funny thing since a city lost $90 million. So I understand that you're I believe it's fully funded though at at this point now it's refund recouped all the losses and the it may be fully funded at this point.
When I was first up here in May I think the funding level was 97.6%. And with the way the market's been moving since then I wouldn't be surprised if we were at 100% funding today maybe 101. I think the year-to- date return on that from talking to um gentlemen in my office is probably around 10 to 12% so far.
Yeah. So, so it's good now because the you get a much higher return but still you couldn't predict next year or anything can happen just like a covid suddenly happen nobody know it and the war can suddenly happen you just see how much is the gas prices.
So all this I just want to say even though the rationale is correct. You borrow at a low interest rate and you invest to try to get a high return but you also have to take the ma market risk into account.
That's just my comment. I think everyone agree that right. Thank you council. Council Mahoney. So, I just want to say that and I I hear what you're saying, but last year we knew that we had to pay $16 million to Peric for we had the letter forever and it wasn't in the budget and you know to sit up here and say that that that's your you know that we don't have to do it or whatever you want to say or we we did a greatest thing in the world.
We had 16 million and we had to use premiums um the premiums on the bonds to pay that down. And when we sat here and every line, every reserve was used to pay down 35 million. That's outrageous. $35 million to lower the taxes.
That's it's outrageous. And then we got downgraded twice because of how much debt we're carrying. And the debt we're carrying includes the $495 million for the debt for the pension obligation bond. But then I'm going to actually have to also say I didn't always vote for everything that came here.
I did vote for many things while I was up here in the city council. I voted for capital. I voted for equipment. I voted for different things. There's things I didn't vote for, too. So, I'm not My hands aren't on every bit of the two billion dollars worth of debt.
But every time we say yes without questioning things, every time we don't look at this and every time we don't think about the future of how we're going to be able to pay those things, we are the ones who are causing that.
And guess what? The administration puts it in front of us. But if we say yes, we get blamed for it. So, you know, if we're doing a great job, we're doing a great job. We're just saying yes to everything.
But we have $2 billion worth of debt. So that's on all of the people who said yes to every single thing you said yes to. Now pension obligation bond. They argued we're making proceeds on this. We shouldn't have to pay that.
That's not how it works. We had to pay it. If we didn't pay it, we wouldn't have been certified. That's how it works. I appreciate the conversation. I was ready to approve the pension. But, you know, I just I feel like you have to really look at things through a larger lens sometimes and you can't always just have what you want.
You know, you always talk wants, needs, you know, we want it, so that's a need to you, but it really has to be can we afford it because just because we want it doesn't mean we can have it. I don't know, maybe your kids like don't ask that question, but sometimes you have to say no.
Um, it's t I know that gentle parenting doesn't say no anymore. So, I I have I was no was in my house. No, was definitely a word that I used in my house, but this isn't it's not a criticism. I'm just saying this is this is the reality of things.
I don't know. I just I know that that works out there, gentle parenting, but Thank you, Council Mahoney. Okay. So, what we have is a is a uh motion to accept the pension budget um as presented $9,749,500 for the 2027 proposed contribution to the pension system.
Do we need to take a roll call vote? All those in favor? I. Any opposed? Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Delibar. Okay. Next up, we have our city solicitor. What happened to my was a little bit better organized.
We'll start with the legal budget. Mr. Solicitor, thank you, Madam Chair, members of the committee. Good evening. Um, I provided a uh PowerPoint and a companion PDF um that I presume you all received.
I it was sent out through uh the clerk of committees and that's got some numbers for you to look at. They're particular numbers regarding the major categories of cases that we deal with. Um so I I was not going to necessarily go through that, but I'm happy to if anyone has any particular questions.
Um, the volume of work that's reflected in those numbers is one thing, but it's it's just part of an overview of what we do in the office. In addition, we handle a lot of different types of cases like property damage claims.
Um, attorney Steve Durkin just settled a case uh two days ago with an insurance company uh that res it was the result of a flood claim uh in a home after a water mane break. So, the city had liability because of a water mane break.
The homeowner's insurer paid the claim and then the homeowner's insurer came after the city and um the claim was for $60,000. it was settled for 45. It's a pretty big settlement. Um, so that's one of the types of things we'll do when there's a water main break or a sewer main break.
We work with the insurance company and the homeowner to make them whole. Um, I just had a man come in the office the other day. a tree came down up in his neighborhood in Wallist on Actton Street and it took out the power line and it took out his electric service and he has a $2,000 bill and we're working with him on that.
So, there are cases like that that we handle. Um, we handle code and zoning cases, I should say zoning cases and code enforcement cases. Um, I know some of you have seen me down at the zoning board, perhaps others.
Um, we represent the zoning board in court when cases are appealed. Um, and we've had different types of zoning enforcement cases in Quinsey District Court and in the uh, housing court. Um and then I think one of the most notorious cases we handled that related to zoning um was one handled by attorney PK and the Airbnb in Squanum that most people are familiar with.
So we do that type of work, but I think the greatest value that our office provides is that we're around during the day. There are always lawyers in city hall to answer questions. Um Mr. Walker beats a path to my office quite frequently.
But what we've tried to do is we've tried to encourage all department heads and employees to reach out to us um before there's a problem to ask questions um where we can provide insight and um assistance and avoid problems.
So I think that's the most effective thing uh that we do in the office. Um, I was going to briefly go over the budget. Um, the budget detail if you care to have me do that or do you want me to just handle questions and have you folks dictate how the review flows?
So, we're just focusing on page 38 of the the um legal department. Then we'll go on to the workers comp and I think there's one more, right? Judgments and settlements. I think um it's up to you. Does do you folks have questions?
Well, solicitor on or did you want to go through it? I'm I'm happy to just explain like what when we I met with the mayor, all the department heads meet with the mayor um perhaps in February or March.
Um you know, he asked for a zerobased budget and that's what that's what I have. There's there's been no increases other than um a a 3% salary increase in lines 510 316 51021 um for um the legal council.
That term applies to the first assistant solicitor. That was a position created under Mayor Failen and um it's held by attorney Pkin. And then the assistant city solicitor position. There's two assistant solicitors and um they're in line 51021.
Uh you may have noticed that this year there's breakage in that line. Um in December an attorney in the office left. He got a job. He's a young attorney. He got a very nice job at a firm in Boston. We're very happy for him.
Um, and at the time I went in and talked to the mayor because we had the um ballot petition case that be talking to you about I presume and um we also had the Long Island Bridge case at a certain stage.
the Long Island Bridge case continues as uh you may or may not know and um both of those cases are um have generated very significant legal fees. So I suggested to the mayor that I leave the position vacant and create that breakage so it would be available uh to pay expected legal fees.
Well, um, regrettably, I've been asking to get the bills in. Um, not all law firms have good administrative operations and I've been unable to get I'm I'm trying to explain how we work in our fiscal year and get bills in and um so I bills are still forthcoming, but I didn't make the last meeting where you folks where the year-end adjustments are made.
So, the breakage that was in that line was part of the year-end adjustment and it's not going to go toward the uh the settlements, but I have money remaining in the settlement. I I mean the outside council accounts that I believe is going to cover well, it's going to have to cover the bills through the end of the year.
So, there's not a lot to talk about really. We have personal ser person personnel service or personal services and then we have um a very uh kind of modest budget for other other items. I think the biggest question would be how we manage outside council and that's handled uh in two ways.
Line 530303 is in the amount of 172,000. And if you follow the history of that line, it's always been right around that number. Um the 72,000 is our workers comp attorney. We have an outside lawyer and have had the entire time I've been here who's quite excellent.
Um, every administration, um, administrations prior to the Koch administration have always had a comp specialist. So, we have an attorney, Mike Maxi, who does an excellent job. He's in that line. And then there's a $100,000 uh for outside counsel.
And we have a couple of cases. Um, they both involve police. One was an arrest incident in a house. Um and one's a very unfortunate incident out in um Moon Island um where there are police involved and because of the nature of what happened, the solicitor's office represented the city um or the license board in one instance.
So we were representing them. The police officers had to get their own attorneys. And that's the type of payment that comes out of the contracted line. we enter into a contract with lawyers to handle specific cases and um you know hopefully pay them um what call what's called for as the correct amount.
So, we have that and then um the line 53010 outside council that was introduced back when the Long Island Bridge case came on our docket. um that was it was known that that was going to be an explosive and expensive case and it has proven to be that and so um this line is used for cases like that.
We've used it um to pay the attorneys who are working on the uh ballot petition case as well. So, um, the ballot petition and the, uh, Long Island Bridge case both happen to be very active right now, and we'll see what happens with that.
So, that's my explanation for all the lines and then the one breakage point. But other than that, I don't know what questions folks might have. Thank you. Uh, any questions for the solicitor? Council Mahoney.
Hi, Jim. So, I think you already answered this, but I was trying to figure out what lines they were. So, we did have breakage um or you had you transferred a total transfer of $85,000 from your your budget in 50 fc year 26 for last week's transfers.
Correct. I'm not sure that that's handled by municipal finance. Was that the total that was included? Yeah, it was 40,000 from um legal personnel services and 45,000 from legal contractual services adding up to 85.
Understood. Cuz I what happened was I was um keeping we were all keeping in contact with each other and I hadn't got the bills in in time for the presentation before the council at the the most recent meeting.
So that's why they went into the the breakage and then were used in the manner they were. Okay. So they were used to lower somebody else's department. So they took money out of your budget to pay for So your money in your budget.
You had $85,000 extra in your budget that went to some something else to another department. Right. It's money that um we didn't spend, but I've every year said that it's money that I, you know, it's important to have it here.
Um if you look at my five-year average for the uh the five-year average, I should say, for the law department, the settlement account fluctuates greatly. And um there was a fluctuation going on here. Like I just mentioned, um Mr.
Durk and recently settled a case and you know the money's there so we used it. Okay. But you're right about where the money came from. So are you Susan? Can you just tell me? I don't know the what I have is as of 612.
Are these numbers um 53 5303? What's the Is there anything encumbered in there that I need to know about? currently there is there's been 111,30886 expended and there are incumbrances totaling $20,79011 out of the contractual line that ends in 5303303.
And I'm going to guess I think I think when you were talking about the personnel services was that the assistant city solicitor? Was it the assistant city solicitor that you had breakage in as well? Yes, that line.
Could you tell me 51021 what that line item is as of now? 51021. The assistant city solicitor. What are you asking? I was asking Susan to tell me what the amount is in that line. I just want to make sure it's the same number.
Okay. Currently the there has been expended 154,2095 available budget of 55,7905. Okay. Which represents that since December that position has been vacant. So there's two people in that department. Correct.
Two people in that department. There's two people in that one. There was two people in that line. Okay. There's two assistant solicitors in that line. Right. Is the plan to hire? Yes, I I have the person hired.
That's all I need. And um Okay. Awesome. Okay. Any further discussion on the legal budget, Council McKe. So, are there you you currently have two assistant city solicitors now or I know one left in December.
Is that you've hired another one? Correct. There are two in the office right now, attorney Pekkin and Attorney Derk. And then I've hired the third. Um, but because of the way, you know, when I work things out with the mayor in December and what I anticipated would happen, I was trying to be responsible about the legal fees cuz they've um it's been significant.
And so um he's this person is hired, experienced, and will be coming on board. Okay. Yeah. So, there's going to be three. There's right only three, but it's always been three. Um, I did start with four assistant solicitors.
Um, I I forget what council it was that cut it to three, but that happened a while ago, but it's been three for more than a it's probably been three for well more than a decade. I guess I'm when I'm looking at the is one of them called legal counsel.
They seem to be in different lines. Yes, that's right. That happened when Mayor Failen was in office and he created a position of a um first assistant city solicitor. Um it was basically b he bumped a particular attorney up a level from the assistant solicitor positions.
And in our office it's attorney Pkkin. Um, when I'm not here, attorney Pin covers and she she takes on other roles. Um, and then the two assistants are paid the exact same amount. Okay. So, there's, let's see, one, two, three, four, five employees in the department.
Um, yes, we have Kathleen, the administrative person, and then there'll be um myself and three lawyers, five. Okay. And is anyone union or pardon me is anyone a union employee or no? No, these are all considered um confidential positions because of the nature of the work.
It's like an HR and so um they're all appointed. Okay. Any vehicles? No. I'm always asking. I I don't even get gas money. I've never put in gas money. I don't think. And do you get gas money? No. and it doesn't either.
We don't we, you know, we we do the job and yeah, there's no um I a few times I've thought when I'm going in Boston that I should get into a blue plate from 55C. Um but I I haven't done that. Yeah. Um, and then it sounds like the the difference between the outside council and the contracted line is that the um the outside council is kind of for big ongoing cases like the Long Island Bridge.
Is that right? And then the contracted line is for That's correct. Everything else. Okay, that's exactly right. Yeah. And we're having I you know we're having uh more of those. Okay. I So more of the bigger cases I mean.
And do you have an amount um so far that's been spent on the Long Island Bridge um this year? I do. Um attorney Oh, on Long Island Bridge. I only have the recent number. Um uh the most recent bill, I don't have a total bill on Long Island Bridge.
Okay. Uh that that'll be pretty significant, but their most recent the fiscal year to date is 35,65125, but there's a matter pending. It's called a motion for judgment on the pleadings. and um Boston and uh Boston Water and Sewer just filed their response.
We just got that in about a week ago. So that's being reviewed by Viral Day and other lawyers and um there's going to be, you know, there'll be more bills on that one. Okay. And then um it sounds like the ballot petition um bills haven't completely come in, but um what has come in to date?
Right. They're they're coming in and um to date uh and again I councelor Jacobs was kind enough to send a query ahead of time. Um to date the the bill uh the legal bill is 110,84729 and there's been activity um you may recall the court issued a memorandum of decision.
There's been post memorandum of decision activity as the lawyers are trying to work out with the parties um how they're going to move forward with the judge's order. So, I've asked KP Law to they've they've got to get the bills in.
Okay. I thought I might have them by tonight, but I do not. But that's the answer to the question that you had inquired on. Um, and then I guess this is just a this is a I don't know if this is a question from UNIFI or the city auditor, but I noticed that there were a couple of small transfers into the professional tech and contracted lines um even though the kind of the original amounts seem to be sufficient um even with encumbrances.
So, there were like $262 transferred in to professional tech um and 600 into the contracted lines. Just seemed sort of odd. Um yes, you could. So, oh, sorry. Here you go. So, the transferins that you're looking at, those are prior year incumbrances.
So when the fiscal year gets closed, the any prior year incumbrances that need to go into the next fiscal year for bills that we have to pay move forward under transfer in. Okay. Okay. Thank you, Madamor.
You're welcome, Council Jacobs. Hi. Thank you, Solicitor Timmons. Um, so the question I I have uh kind of goes back, you kind of already touched on it. Um you uh were speaking about the uh 530010 outside council.
It's been $195,000 for at least the last two budget cycles proposed 195,000 in 2027. And when exactly did the Long Island Bridge, Just refresh my memory, when when did that start? Like what year was that in?
Which case? The Long Island Bridge case. I I don't recall exactly. May I ask Mr. Walker can help? 2019. Mr. Walker through you, Madam Chairwoman. Uh, Mayor Marty Walsh announced his plans to rebuild the Long Island Bridge in his state of the city address in January of 2018.
2018. And so I when you when you had were speaking a little a while ago, you had mentioned that we'd always had line item 530303 for contracted and you said that 72,000 is pretty much for workers comp and 100,000 was for outside counsel, but I think you would alluded and correct me if I'm wrong that 530010 outside council came about because of the Long Island Bridge.
That line item did not exist before 200. That's correct. Okay. um you've been city solicitor since 2009 eight sorry 2008 um you know that so that basically for 10 years you went without that line item cuz you or or did it did another like you know I'm just trying to say cuz cuz I remember when this happened I remember when the Long Island Bridge thing came up and I remember when you came before the council and you asked the council to to come up with this line item you know so that way you could proceed with the um lawsuits, anything that should come up without having to come before the council to ask for money.
Well, it was it was actually the initiative of the ward six counselor at the time, Brian McName um not mine. Prior in time, these budgets used to be 250,000 for settlements, 250,000 for judgments. That's what it was back in the day.
But um following a uh you know a robust review of everything. I recall working with councelor Palmucci directly um because like some of the attorneys here would understand this. The judgment line um we just dropped that to 50 because if there's a judgment against the city it has to be paid.
Um there are two things that have to be paid. snow removal bills and judgments. So, uh because they're unpredictable. Um at the time, what we agreed to that was a total of 500,000. They cut the settlement account to 300 because they agreed, we all agreed at the time, having that money available to settle stuff.
Sometimes you can get ahead of a case. Counselors have contacted our office. They want us to handle a matter. Um you may recall an occasion or two council where that's happened in ward one and so the settlement account has been has proven to be a real asset.
Um I and I give the credit to then councelor Palmucci who's now the honorable Palmucci but um uh we figured that we increase the settlement account because that's where we needed the flexibility to work and that's been a successful approach.
We don't always exhaust the numbers there, but having them available each year because you'll see there's a fluctuation. So that's actually how that all worked out. Okay. Um so when this came about, I you know was some time ago.
Um I had personally myself at that time some concerns about just creating a line item for the Long Island Bridge. Um, not that I think, you know, we shouldn't necessarily be be fighting that, but um, I feel like if you do something like that, it kind of goes out of the average person's mind because they're not being refreshed as to how much money we're we're spending on the Long Island Bridge.
Whereas before, if we didn't have this $195,000 line item, you would have to come back before the council and ask for money, and we'd supply that money. And um you know it would remind the um taxpayers of of how much this actually is costing us which we actually we know but we don't have that final number in front of us right now.
So for that reason I am going to cut 86 uh make a motion to cut $86,000 from line item 530010 and reduce it to 109 thou from 195,000 to $109,000. May I understand the rationale so I can perhaps respond.
I just said that I I think it needs to be a reminder. We got to have to make a visual reminder for the citizens of Quinsey, how much we're spending on um these legal cases, especially ones like the Long Island Bridge and the um signature case because we have this $195,000 line item which the administration is able to spend and it kind of goes on the back burner of the taxpayers.
And I think that if we lowered it to 109,000, um, you would have to come before the council and explain what's going on, why we need more money, so that way the taxpayers could be re-educated as to why this money is being spent.
Well, I would be delighted and I think it would be more efficient if you want to bring me uh I'm I'm always sitting over there. I've said this before, just call me up to the microphone. But if you want a legal update on bills and cases, I'd be very happy to provide those.
You know, it's not like we're going out if if if Mayor Ko were, you know, um filing lawsuits the way the attorney general, the state's attorney general files them. Um, I might understand that that he would have a desire or an intent to hide the money, but that's not, you know, that's not what's going on.
And I'm happy to report on them. We just don't we don't report like Long Island Bridge has been very active at times and then it goes dormant for a bit because it's sitting at a state agency or whatever.
But I would be very happy to regularly at your request or you can set dates or I'll do it quarterly. I'll come in and report on the expenses of uh settlements and whatnot. So, um I just want to go on the record to say that I never suggested the mayor was hiding money.
I don't know. No, I offered that out as a you know, just as I'm saying that there's no reason for Well, I just So, we have a we I have a motion on the table to reduce this line item 530010 by $86,000.
you even we just had a transfer of $85,000 the other I think the other day out of this out of this budget. So, you know, I think there's room there and I I think we can reduce this by $86,000. So, yeah, that transfer wasn't just out of this budget.
Some of the money came out of this budget, um but not all of it. Okay. And and I'm using, as I said, Attorney Durkin just settled the matter. So, um, I just suggest that having the flexibility, the 300,000, it's it's very important.
I I beg your pardon. Having the flexibility with the outside council is very important cuz cases pop up. Two of the police cases are new this year and you will still have this flexibility. You'll just have to come back before the council and ask for the money.
Okay, we have a motion. We have a motion. Any further discussion on the motion? Councelor Ash, hang on one second. Go ahead. Thank you. Thank you. Um I would just be I would be hesitant to cut anything from that.
Um ju under the premise of having the solicitor come back in to give us an update because there are strict time rules and and you know the rules of civil procedure of course and um if the solicitor had to come in and give an update in order to get or retain counsel to potentially respond to a matter within a very specific time frame.
If that's in the summer, I mean, we don't meet for for 60 days. And I I I'm I know that uh there could be some some logistical some defaults um and some issues that would arise if we weren't able to respond to these matters within a timely manner.
Um so I wouldn't support that cut, but uh for for that premise, thank you. Thank you, councelor Rash. Um, council, thank you. Oh, and chair. Uh, I support this card because I think follow up with councelor um Jacob's opinion.
It's it does serve as a visual reminding reminder for the taxpayers citizens how much money how much taxpayers money have been spent on all those legal issued for the city. So how much legal uh legal case going on currently in the city?
Excuse me. How many legal case going on currently in in the city? Um I I don't have that number. Um let me take a look at because when you say legal case, I'm not sure what you mean exactly because as I explained in my opening comments, there's all different types of matters we handle.
Uh as I read, we we currently we have three eminent domain case and we have this we just had that sign signature um petition signature case and we have um that a statue case. I know that statue case now you have you have outside lawyer gives the free service and and the Long Island case.
So, I I Well, there's more than that. Um, yeah, there's a couple of police cases. I referenced those uh that I'm familiar with. Um, I know that Mr. Durkin told me the number of cases he's actually handling.
He's got 53 motor vehicle accident claims, and I just don't know how many of them are in suit. Um and then he's got 21 property damage claims and again I don't know how many are in suit. Okay. Uh so um my concern is I think the question might be how many lawsuits out of the out of the outside council.
I think that's your what your question is. How many lawsuits are currently pending outside of the outside council line? I I just say generally we spend residents taxpayers money have been spent a lot on all kinds of legal case and some if we can avoid it like um just for example if some eminent domain case if administration work with the um resident when they when administration want to use eminent domain to take their property if they can have some ne negotiation going on.
So avoid the both party go to the court spend money on legal uh I I would really recommend that way like um work like outside of yeah we've done that when we can um when we're able to work cooperatively with a property owner we do u but it just doesn't happen in all cases.
Okay. And and and also you mentioned that um some trees falling down on some like you said the the trees falling down damaged some resident's electrical well I think I know that case and uh because her neighbor called the city say that tree need been cut But city didn't do it then during uh the storm in February that TR like right and that's where the liability comes from.
So like this if the I mean if department can improve their work like if resident say okay this is the d tree come to cart then then will not have this kind of expense. Well, I mean, I wish we lived in Neverland, too, but that's not the case.
I I think I don't know how many um lift trucks they have in natural resources. But they have a tree list and they go around taking down trees all the time, but in order to do that work, they need a a lift.
They need other heavy equipment. And so, they're limited. There's a limited capacity to get the work done. and um they do the best they can. So, but I do understand because you're right, we hear that a lot.
Yeah. I'm just how to save those unnecessary cost, right? Because I know that case she said her neighbor repeatedly report that tree need to be removed but I don't know take how long didn't do it. Then during storm in February that tree falling down and damaged their property then now the city have to pay for that.
So I'm okay just say how to improve the department work to avoid. Oh understood. Okay. I mean there's all kinds of things that uh I think everyone does the best they can. You see the the claim numbers have gone down.
Um I they they they do a good job out in the field and we end up handling the cases where things didn't work out. So it's not fully fair to um the folks in public works, natural resources to signal them out.
Yeah. Okay. Just so you understand. Yeah. Thank you. I I I talked to the commissioner of the park. So he said yes. Yeah. Not just say if these things happen and probably it's not the only case. Okay. Another thing is um Okay.
So we have a motion to cut this line item. I I just don't want you to go too far off. Oh, you want from that from that motion. Any further discussion on that motion? Go ahead, Council. I have a quick question.
Just out of curiosity. I Adams Academy, where do we stand on that? That case is it remains pending. Um it's in discovery. I've been trying to get um the attorneys for the um the trust, the Woodard School Trust, uh to talk about a potential settlement, but that hasn't happened yet.
Settlement for what? so that they could sell the building or what's that? What do you mean by settlement? If you could explain a resolution of the case, the case you're asking about. So, we just haven't How many times did it go to the SJC?
Once or twice. I beg you pardon. It went to the SJC and lost once. Is this the second time or It went I uh Well, I'm not certain. I think it went up three times and um I'm just not certain. I know the city prevailed.
We we prevailed on one matter, one of the original SJC cases, but then they prevailed on uh the most recent one. So, the other question I had was not to you, Jim. What do can you tell me what line item you're cutting because I'm 530 cutting from 535,000 to 19.
Okay. There's been no outside council work on Adam's Academy. No, that's okay. I just was asking. Okay. It just popped in my head. Wait one second. Okay. Councel Jacobs. So, you had said when it uh came to the um ballot petition, we were at $110,84729.
So, we have you, we have Janet, we have Steve, um and we have a potential now for And this all happened probably while this other gentleman was or lady, I don't know who was he was with us. He was with us.
Okay. So we we had four four lawyers in house. Then we hired outside council KP uh services. Is that what KP Law Firm and I don't know how many lawyers we had there? But we spent $110,000 on top of whatever you guys were doing in the in the case.
And the other side spent $20,000 in one. Well, I don't know what the other side spent. I know that they're working with a particular legal agency that goes around the country doing this work. So, I presume that there's something there.
And they were working with Harvard Legal Aid. So, I'm presuming there's something there. Um, our office was conflicted out of that case. Okay. the case about a ballot petition relating to uh the mayor's salary and the four people you mentioned are all appointees of the mayor.
We had to get outside counsel for that reason. Many times we have to get outside counsel because of conflicts. Well, that's one of the things that like I going back to the salary that I don't understand because you know you came up here a couple of weeks ago and talked about like oh repeal versus delete and I don't really we're going to get into that in a couple of days but you know over here you know you're talking about how we couldn't get into this signature case because we're appointees of the mayor and it had to do with this pay raise.
So, I don't even understand how you guys can come up here and talk about the ordinance regarding the pay raise because it's in your best interest, and I'm not I'm not saying this happened, but it's in this department's best interest to make the language in that um in that ordinance, you know, the most beneficial terms for the person who employs you, which is the mayor.
So, you know, in my own mind, like the idea, like even when you're up here, it doesn't make any sense to me. I don't understand how how you can come up here and even speak to that because you are speaking about the the the um you know the pay that the person who employs you and then also could determine whether or not you get a raise you know you know so but again this is that's neither here nor there.
We're going to talk about that next week. But again there's a motion on the table here to cut $86,000 from 530010 from $195,000 to $109,000. I'd like a vote to take place. Okay. Any further discussion?
I do want to give everyone a chance to speak. Respond to that because that's not neither here nor there. And I think we're going to talk about that next. Okay. Well, can can we can I just give everyone a chance to speak so that we can take a vote on this?
Councelor um Huby, did you want to speak on it? Yeah, sure. Thank Thanks, Madam Chair. And so I don't exactly know who this question would go to, but um wanted to put it out there and whoever feels inclined that they can answer be appreciated.
So I routinely see updates in the newspaper about these cases and I think the newspapers, whether it's the Quincy Son, Patriot Ledger, Boston Globe, uh do a pretty good job covering it. When they do so, they often include um measurements of how much the city's municipality has spent about it.
And I imagine they must submit a request for information to get that. So I do see these things to council Jacob's uh inquiry. I guess uh these things are routinely reported in the press and uh solicitor Timmons offered up a I think a pretty reasonable offer to meet uh councelor Jacob's request behind the cut um to come up and routinely at the request of this body to explain what kind of expenditures have happened.
So, I guess I want to put it out there and and then then of course councelor Ash's point immediately when this came up I looked right over at him to see if he was going to have a comment and of course he did.
Um, so it does seem like we have a reasonable middle ground on this and so that I wanted to put that out there and see what my colleague said. Thank you. Okay. Um, any anyone else have comment? Councelor Ash, one second.
I would just clarify because I I believe to councelor Yuan's um line of questioning I think with the with respect to the claims she was um referring to the judgments and settlements budget not necessarily with respect to councelor Jacob's request to cut from outside counsel.
I think this that the solicitor um said earlier that the outside council line item is for the larger cases um and who they retain his office retains for the instances like when they are specifically um conflicted out of a matter um I know we've h we've there's been a number of those right I think that they've they certainly haven't decreased over the last few years which is why again I would would go to my point I'd be hesitant to to cut from that outside of the the time constraints and asking the solicitor to come in and give um updates that could potentially be detrimental to to the to the deadlines in the matter.
Thank you. I'm going to take some privilege, council, because I have not spoken yet. You know, the the line has been pretty much expended every year. Um I understand that it would be for um referring to specialized legal counsel on cases that need to be I can appreciate um councelor Jacob's point that when it comes to appeals and things like that it can be we can not necessarily have a lot of uh input into that but I would like to I would prefer to take solicitor Timmons up on his offer to provide some reporting on you know where lawsuits are at.
You obviously some of them are going to be confidential. you're not going to be able to speak to the specifics, but maybe um the the cost where the costs are at, where they are in the legal process, are they in appeal?
And because you're right, they they they um come up and then there's a long wait and then they come back. And to councelor Ash's point, um you know, these are timely. So, I I would not be in favor of cutting this item, but I would be in favor of providing a little bit more reporting.
Um does it does anyone else counselor Debon, had you spoken on this? No, you have not. Hang on one moment. Um, thank you, Madam Chair. Um, this is a a question to councelor Jacobs if he could. Um, I know you're making a cut for 86,000.
Um, the solicitor has said he would come in front of this body at any time with any of these um, situations and talk very transparent to us about this. I was just considering maybe if you could cut that in half and make the cut $43,000.
And I mean, he's putting up the fact that he'll come back here to the city council and and speak about it. Um, it's pretty transparent to me. If maybe just cut it in half, um, it would give it would give him a little bit more leeway to come back here.
Um, it just seems like it's it's just it's a high cut. Um, councelor, I don't need a financial incentive to come back. I'll just schedule it. Can any any counselor can schedule me to come back and report.
So, I appreciate where you're coming from, but I want you to be clear. It doesn't have to be because I'm coming to request money. Well, let me thank you. No, I I want to respond. I want Okay. So, I do appreciate that.
I do and I and I hear you and I hear you say that a lot and that's good. But I've been emailing you about Green Leaf Street for months and I you've not responded to the people who live in that building.
You've not responded to me about any of that. I I have heard I I spoke to you in person at the ENC event um at Central Middle School and you were like you basically said to me, "I don't have time to talk to you right now." And shued me away.
Well, so you it's nice that you stand here and say that you're going to come before this body or that I can email you or that I can call you, but when I'm dealing with my constituents, okay, and and you just I like it's like I'm I don't even exist.
Counselor, right behind where Mr. Hubli is now sitting. You may recall saying to me after meeting in the presence of the council president. Mhm. I think everything you say is a lie. Those are the words you said to me.
And it was after that occurred and it was in the presence of members of the public. It was here in the chamber that I stopped talking to you and said, "Email me then." Okay. That's what that happened.
And since then, you have not contacted me on green legal. No. No. Councelor Jacobs. Councelor Jacobs. No. I'm going to stop this line of questioning. This line item is not for the the in-house personnel.
It is for specialized legal services for the police, for workers comp, for whatever it is that you need to get help with. I I think we need to take a vote on this matter. Um, do we want to reduce it to the I don't know.
You've you've got the motion on the table. So, I'm going to change the motion to reduce Okay, hang on one second. Council Jacobs, go ahead. I'm going to I'm going to Oh, sorry. It's I'm talking. So, I'm going to make a motion to I'm going to repeal my other motion.
I'm going to change the motion to reduce 53010 by um $43,000 suggested by Council Deon to $152,000. Okay. So the revised motion on 530001 0 is to reduce it from 195,000 reduce it 43,000 to 152,000 on the motion.
Any discussion council McKe hang on. So um sometimes there's contracts that require a certain payment per year I guess is do we have any contracts how many contracts do we have u for paying outside legal firms is there and is there any kind of amount set in those contracts?
Sure, there's amounts in all of them, but um right now we're working with uh six different law firms and they all have contracts for how much? Well, it all varies and but these aren't retainer contracts.
We can only pay in a rears. The uh service has to have occurred and then we pay for it. So every one of these they have their billing rate in there, their allowed billing rate in there and they bill based on that hourly rate and their time and the and the bills come in fairly regularly.
A couple of the bigger firms are pretty good about it um because they have admin people. So it's just a kind of hourly rate um based on what whatever is used. It's not like it's the city is on the hook for a set amount of money per year for That's correct.
But we do ballpark we have to put um an amount in for what we expect the contract to be to make sure that municipal finance has the the money. Okay, that's it. That's that's my question. Thank you. Okay.
Okay. Further discussion on this on this cut this line item cut. Okay. Go ahead, Council Yan. Thank you, Madame Chair. Uh, I want to clarify and councelor Ash misunderstood what I want to say. The reason I support councelor uh Jacob's card is mainly because I want to give a visual sign to the resident that city has spended too much on all those legal case and if there is some way we can improve and can save some taxpayers money on some legal cases we should do that.
So that's why I I supported to make the make the card on the line because one one more thing like last time when we talk about the um DPW the grease uh like the the grease the oil those things like when they give the fine they didn't include any original they they don't have any like oversight.
So they the fine is the final. So if some mistake the uh people get the fine in wrong only way they can do it is go to the court to sue the city. So that's why I suggest like uh in the DPW department or administration have a like a review process to um trying to resolve the complaint inside before like a resident have to go to the court to to solve it because if resident go to court the city will also go to court to spend it.
So um council yen I'd like to I'd like to take a vote on this. Okay. So that's why I want I just explain that's that's my purpose to support. It's not a councelor ash means like uh it's a small case is not in this contractor.
So I support to to cut of this outside council. I'd like to take a roll call vote please. Council councel Haley go ahead. Thank you madam chair through you. I'll try to be brief. Um so as I said earlier in my remarks uh I believe there's a mechanism through which through the press through which the public is readily informed about expenditures on legal cases that the city takes up on behalf of the same residents.
By the way um there is an offer to come in at any time to this body to report that information as well. Um, frankly, I know these meetings can be somewhat entertaining at times, but I think um, the newspapers probably get a little bit more coverage than us on QAV.
Maybe I'm wrong. Um and I do I've listened very carefully to the reasons behind the request and of course the support of the request from by council UN and both appear to be more of a performance um management nature as and and you don't really manage individual employees or groups of employees performance in terms of response times and things like that um through budget.
That's not the mechanism by which you do. You do it through management. You do it through feedback. You do it through feedback loops. And I think that this is an executive branch action that's trying to be handled through the legislative budget process.
And so I would agree with councelor uh sorry, chair Riley um that I think that I wouldn't be supportive of this this uh cut. I'd like to take the roll call, please. Council Ash, no. Council Deon, no. Council Hubley, no.
Council Jacobs, yes. Council Mahoney, yes. Council McKe, yes. Council Ryan, yes. Council Yuan, yes. Chairman Riley, no. Motion passes. Okay, the motion pass. Um, so if there's no further discussion on the budget, go ahead, council.
Uh, I have a question about this contracted. So maybe I missed. What do you say? So what's uh what's spending on this contracted office service? 5 530 5303. Oh 5303 contracted, right? I think that's what you said.
5303, correct? 530. Yes. Pardon me. Yes. 5003. Okay. So, what is your question please? My question is I just try to understand uh the like contracted like what's the difference between like a contracted and outside council.
I may be missed. I just ask you to repeat. Okay. Contracted consists of two numbers basically. 72,000 is the sum that we pay the workers compensation attorney, Michael Maxi, who's been with the city for a considerable period of time and does a terrific job.
Um, the $100,000 balance is the amount that we use to hire law firms like uh or lawyers. In this particular case, it's more lawyers. We've hired lawyers in two cases uh involving police where there's a conflict of interest.
Um and they tend to be the cases that come in during the course of a year and we can anticipate they're going to be in and out. The legal fees won't exceed $50,000. That's what that uh line is about. Two cases related to police.
Pardon me. Who cases? Well, right now, um, there's two and then let me just take a look because there's I know there's at least one other um, no, right now it's it's pretty much two, but keep in mind this 100,000 is for next year, for the coming year.
and we don't know what that year brings. Um the history that's been presented um before this body um shows that you know there's going to be there's going to be a need for this type of money. So Okay.
Okay. So so historic data show like uh every year we have some this kind of case related to police. you need a contract outside a lawyer. Is this through the historic data? Every year have some kind of this thing happen.
No, that's actually not accurate because um we went for well over at least a decade without any police cases, which is completely remarkable for a city this size. Um it it just so happened like one of the cases involved an eviction where an officer four officers went into a house because there was a fight going on and it was over an eviction and that person has sued.
And then the other one, um, it's it's a very bad incident that occurred, um, where the license board was sued and attorney Pkin represented the license board in court and then a particular individual officer was sued and so that officer needed his own attorney.
But other than that, I really can't remember any police related cases since I handled one back in like 2012, 2011 or 2012. Um, they they're not very frequent. They just happen to be the types of cases that we're dealing with here now.
But it could be a case where someone sues us, you know, you just saw in the newspaper a lawsuit filed by someone over Furnaceburg golf course, you know, that came out of the blue. So there are cases like that that come up and we deal with them.
Uh so yeah if if that kind of a case like sue you about the golf course do you need a contract outside lawyer or you can do it? No we're going to handle that in house. Yes. Okay. Since you said um historic data show like before there is no police no police uh involved the case but 2025 you also budget 172,000 in that year in that year there any case need outside lawyer any police related things you lost me on that one uh in 2020 2022 you also budget 172 2000 2022.
Yeah. Okay. Um and which line are you saying is over? It's the same line. It's the contracted. It's the same line. Yeah. 2023. That that had to be Long Island. That would have been the Long Island Bridge case.
I think what happened was we had some outside council money, too. Well, no, I'm seeing that budget. Um, I'm not really sure which case that would have been, but you can just tell that something happened in 2023 and that's why the number jumped.
Um, because the numbers are fairly consistent during that five-year average. The reason I ask because you said you just had a true case about police related before uh you never have but uh uh seems from the spending every year spend so much money.
So I want to know what other case well we have we have zoning cases need outside lawyer. I'm trying to think if you can think of any um where we've used outside counsel. Um I I don't know that's not some I can if you care to talk about this um you know after I can give you some clarification.
I I can't answer that now about why those particular expenditures occurred. I just identified what they were because I'm here on the budget and I'm trying to show that in the past years this is what we spent.
But the particulars of what type of case it was? I'm not certain. And are those two police related cases still going on or already finished? the the the ones that we just spoke about, the current cases are still going on.
Um, attorney Pkin was able to get the city out of one of the cases or the license board, I should say. She handled that aspect of it and the claims against the license board were dismissed, but the claim against the individual officer is still proceeding at this time.
And then the other case is actually coming up for trial soon. Um the eviction case, council, and I'm just going to take a privilege here, but just to clarify, um solicitor Timmons, you said the 172,000 72 of that goes to a workers's comp, correct?
So you're really only talking 100. And is that a fixed cost like you pay pay that person for that or do they bill up to that amount or something? Yes, he's No, he's under contract and he's paid in the annual installments.
Okay. We've been able to keep the workers comp budget. You'll see when we get to it. Um, you know, we keep we use an outside service to tabulate the billing and make sure it aligns with the uh what's allowed by the workers comp board.
Um, that usually costs around 60,000. So our personnel and expense cost for workers comp has always been around 130,000 72 plus whatever the outside company gets. But my point is that this for this line item there's really only 100,000 that's used it more at your discretion.
Correct. Okay. And that and this is I guess maybe the question would be the difference between the outside council and the contracted. Is there a big difference or do you kind of use them interchangeably for when you need to contract when you need to work with specialized legal services?
Well, it it um I'm not quite sure what you mean, but Well, it it sounds like outside cons council and contracted with the exception of the workers is used in a similar fashion. Yes, they are. And you know like on the police case we've got a lawyer who this type of work he does in Norwood.
If we're a zoning case there are lawyers who know zoning that we go to. So yes specialized. Yes. Okay. So council yen do you have a motion on this on this line item? Yeah I do have a motion. So generally I would like to encourage encourage city spend less money on those legal fees like uh if something can resolve insight like through uh departmental work through the work with resident then save both parties money.
So for that purpose I I would like to make a cut of this item. Just cut a 20,000 uh on item 53030. Cut 20,000. Yeah. Okay. So the motion on 53030 is to cut it $20,000 from 172,000 to 152,000. Is that correct?
Yes. Okay. On the motion, I'd like to take a roll call vote. Councelor Ash. No. Council Deon. Council Hubley. No. Council Jacobs, yes. Council Mahoney, yes. Council McKe, yes. Council Ryan, yes. Council Yuan, yes.
Shannon Riley, no. Motion passes. Okay, the motion passed. Motion to approve as amended. Okay, we have a motion to approve this budget as amended. Any discussion on the motion to approve as amended? All those in favor?
I. Any opposed? Okay, wonderful. Okay, moving on to Forgive me. I lost I lost track of my thing. Is it workers comp? Is workers comp next? Do you want to give a little summary? I don't have much really to say about it.
It's a very consistent budget as you can see. Um we've always always zero budgeted it. Um there's two different things that are paid out of our office. Um the injured pay is the salary that the injured party gets um at the workers's comp rate um which is 70% of their full salary.
Um that is with the exception of police and fire. Police and fire the salaries are covered by the departments themselves. they're treated under statute chapter 111F and um that's treated differently. So personal ser person personnel service in the um 510173 line is an estimate for the coming year for how much in workers comp benefits will have to be paid to injured people.
And that's always just a total ballpark. It's based on past performance. You can see we consistently fund it the same. The next line 57 Well, I'm going to skip one. 570703, Working Men's Comp. Um, that's a name I've been trying to get changed.
I'll renew my request that it be changed in the budget um to workers comp. But um that's the medical bills and we pay all the medical bills, police, fire, and the municipal employees. Um and what happens is the Department of Industrial Accidents sets the rates for medical bills.
Um and they're they're to be paid at that rate. If you're on workers's comp and you get injured, then your medical bills are paid at a certain rate. Um, so we use an outside company. That's what 530303 represents, the contractual line.
Um, that's a company that we send all the bills out. they go through and they um I think the term is well I don't recall the term but what they do is they make sure that they're accurately rated and then they send the bills back to us and we pay them.
So that's what those three individual lines represent. Um they're consistent every year. Um I mentioned attorney Michael Maxi. He does a an absolutely terrific job. He's excellent. But a credit this year, I think you'll see in this year's um budget that the workers comp um 510173 that that line is is way down.
We haven't spent anywhere near the 752 this year. And that's really reflection on the employees and the department heads. There's not been a lot of folks going out on comp. And I'll just tell you one little issue that it it it's a it's in the um PDF I gave you and it's in the uh PowerPoint.
It shows that in the workers comp injury reports, 39% of the reports we get from the city, police, fire, admin, and the school department, 39% are from the school department. And that's because the teachers properly have been told that anytime there's an issue with a student and teachers get whacked.
We get reports all the time about physical conduct. They report them. So we've had a lot of reports this year uh but we have not had a lot of claims. The workforce has been terrific. I think the department heads do a great job.
But I ask that we leave the lines in place because we need to if um folks, you know, things happen and there are injuries in the workplace, we need to be ready to pay those. And then um you know in the 570703 line if someone has a fracture and there's surgery that can cost upwards of $100,000 and wipe out a significant portion of the uh the medical.
So I think for the most part these lines I request they be left intact. That's my explanation for them. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Any discussion on this budget line item? Councelor McKe. Um, so I guess um I believe that our our budgeted amount is higher than some other similarly sized cities.
Um, it's a it's higher than Brockton, but that's um 1.2 million, so it's not super hugely more. But um Lynn uh $450,000, New Bedford about $590,000 and Fall River uh just $28,000. Um I guess have you looked at any of these other places?
And do you have any ideas why Quincy might be higher than these other places? Well, I'm presuming I don't know what you're reading from or how you got numbers, but I'm presuming that there's some sort of misinterpretation.
There's no way that a major city could get by with 200 and some odd thousand and their workers comp. Are you saying for both injured pay and medical medical bills, the total that the city has is $200,000?
Sounds like the 2027 budget proposal is is that I'll get I'll check into it more but um but I'm just wonder it sort of stood out so I thought well I would ask people you know you were silent about the number of employees in the department and you know I don't do the comparison stuff we have the number of employees we need and and I'm very happy and grateful grateful that's been preserved.
Um, this workers comp budget, you have all the data from the city of Quinsey about what's gone on and it's completely consistent all along. This year has been a good year and I acknowledge that. I said that.
But the notion that you can look at Brockton and say, "Well, we should do something up here." How many employees does Brockton have? How do they handle things down there as far as the the medical bills and everything?
I just don't I there's no reason for me to look at other cities when I'm talking about uh the Quinsey budget before the Quinsey City Council and I can show you five years of totally consistent. Well, I can Yeah, I can get more information.
I just wondered if you had thoughts about that. I Yeah, I don't and I'm sorry because I'm just not aware. The um the 2025 draft audit um says the city has a liability of $9.6 million um at the end of the fiscal year.
Um and that accounts for all outstanding claims as of that date. Um so including like long-term claims. And I just maybe this is a a question for the for Mr. Delib Barbara. But how is that are those claims and the payments coming out of like the the pension um a pension reserve system or I'm not aware of that.
Take a look to that. I don't believe so, but that's a question I'd be glad to answer if you want to send me an email. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. All set. Okay. Councel Hubbley. Thank you, Madam Chair, through you.
Um, my only question actually is for councelor McKe and I think um, uh, Mr. Timmans touched upon it which is there are some things when we look at comparative cities that we do uh on a population level and then there are other things that we would look at in terms of a number of employee level and maybe type of employees and counts of employees because they have different um we'll say risk factors and so my question was when we're looking at comparable cities are we looking at comparable size workforces because this cost as I understand it applies to workforce not the population So that was just my one question which might might have resolved your question.
Um that's all I have. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Who who's next? Council Ryan. Hang on one second. Council Ryan. Through you, Madam Chair. Um I just would like a clarification on the workers comp uh injury reports for school year 2022 through 2026.
the 39% for the school. Is that just injuries to the teachers or is that injuries to the students or No, no, it would just be the uh employees, the teachers, the par profofessionals. Okay. All right. And what type of injuries?
Could you give an example? Yeah, they vary. I mean, we've had teachers fall and um teachers pick up something. They might pick up a fallen student, injure their back, but we've had a lot of situations where students um have have whacked a parah or a teacher.
Yeah, it really varies. Okay. All right. Thank you. Thanks. Motion to approve um council Mahoney. So Jim, I know you you you're saying it hasn't changed 752, 92, and 853. Do we have workers comp? Is that a is that a is do we go out for that or is that something we pay self-insure?
Do we have an insurance when you say you have somebody looking at it for contractual? Who is it that we have looking at it for contractual? Who do we contract out with? Um the company's called Guardian Claim Service.
Okay. And what they do is they take in the bills. It's something that would be uh impossible for us to do. I believe they have a proprietary service, but the Industrial Accident Board rates all medical injuries and No, I know it would be.
I just wondering because we use I mean there's MEGA, there's there's Guardian, there's a bunch of different ones you can use. So I there's a bunch of different ones you can use. I just wanted to know which one you were using.
Yeah, we Well, we put it out to bid and we use Guardian. Okay. So when I'm looking and I know you don't want us to cut this but when I'm looking at this since 2025 you haven't raised the budget but when I'm looking at your is it with 2021 through 2025 plus the actuals in 2026 and I just took the total department 912 grand totals from 2021 to 2026 and I came up with the number and then I divided by six and then I subtracted it by 1601 169 and it comes out to about $265,000 over for those years.
So then when I went back I was like I'm going to just look at the the each line item and there was one other piece of this. So in 2026 the fix fiscal year ended with 200,000 remaining in personal services and 125 in current expenses and they were used for transfers.
So this is where I'm coming from. So in fiscal year 2026 we have 752 budget and do we have any can we look at um actual Susan for all three of these lines? Are we talking about workers compensation? Yep.
Can we just look at the actuals for workers compensation for all three injured pay others and workers comp? All right. Okay. I'm asking Susan. Yeah. I'm asking I'm asking the audit. I wasn't asking you to do that.
So you want to know what the actuals were? I want to know if there's any encumbrance in encumbrance for any of these. So in the contractual line right now the 530303 y um in fiscal year 26 right now 80,325 has been expended.
There's still an available balance of 27,740. However, there are a few weeks left in the fiscal year and I don't know what their financial obligations are. Okay. And then what about 510? Um I made the wrong number.
Yeah, 510173. Um that actually is personal services. So there are still a few weeks left in the fiscal year that we have to pay out of that. Okay. And then what about 57073? Mhm. In that particular line, um there is an encumbr we've spent 660,739.
There is an encumbrance of 40,000 and there's a remaining balance of 153,000. Okay. So when I was looking at this and I'm just going to entertain this because it's gone up and down over the years, but the average and you had a the transfer of the 100 and 125.
So, when I'm looking at that and I'm looking at 492, I'm not looking to cut a lot. I'm just looking to cut $75,000 from 510173, which would leave you about 675 in that. And 675 is less than what the average would have been for that that line item if it went across all six lines.
I'm not touching um contractual. And then when I looked down at workers comp, the last line I had it because I was looking at the number 454, I had it higher for a higher cut. And you're saying it's at 700 right now.
So for that one, I would say a $50,000 cut for that one 50. So we can I know you do. I have a motion, but I did say I had my hand up for a long time. Sorry. I'm so sorry. I did. I'll withdrawing the motion to approve as is.
We're entertaining um a cut to 510173 from um 65,000 of 65,000. Cutting 65,000 from that. Okay. No, just 65. Just 6. Not just 65. 65. Yeah. From the 752. Okay. Um I'll let Jen do the math. Okay. And then what was the other one you had, Council Mah?
5707350,000. Okay. They have separately. Oh, no. I will do them separately. I just wanted to get them out there. Okay. Okay. Okay. So, on 510173, the motion is to reduce the line item from 7528.885 65,000 to 687885.
Yep. on the motion. Councelor Ash, I'll just ask Solicitor uh Timmons if if there's any like forecasting or trends um that he thinks could be coming in that would need to come back to the well for that $65,000 based on, you know, more injuries, more employees, etc.
I will um echo the sentiments of uh the eminently um uh well whatever I'll Mr. Delibber I'll follow his lead and just say if we need to we'll be back. The one issue with cutting the salary line is that we have to pay the salary.
That's required, you know, under statute enforced by the AG, but we could anticipate if there's going to be a deficiency there. These are palatable cuts. We could work with these cuts. Thank you. Okay.
Any further discussion then on the motion? Do we need a roll call vote or a roll call vote? Okay. Councilor Ash. Yes. So this is on the first one. 510173. Council Ash. Council Dana. Yes. Councilor Hubley.
Yes. Council Jacobs. Yes. Council Mahoney. Yes. Council McKe. Yes. Council Ryan. Yes. Council Yuan. Yes. Chairman Riley. Yes. Amen. Okay. So then on 570703 reducing that from 853800 $50,000 to 803800.
Any discussion on that motion? Okay. Uh, we'll take a roll call vote on that. Council Ash, yes. Council Deona, Council Hubley, Council Jacobs, Council Deon, yes. Council McKe, yes. Council Ryan, yes. Council Yuan, yes.
Riley, yes. Okay. And so, do we have a motion to um Okay. From Council Devon, we have a motion to approve this budget as amended. All those in favor? I. Any opposed? Okay. Wonderful. Thank you. Thank you, madam.
Now, we're up to judgements and settlements. Oh, one more judgments and settlements. Oh, seems like Well, we've talked it through. Certainly. I thought there was a uh thought there was a motion on that on settlements.
Okay. Well, I I don't have any preliminary comments. We'll say that. Okay. Okay, Council McKe. Um, so, uh, Slitter Timmons, I had asked for information about the judgments and settlements. Um, and you had indicated that they were they were confidential, but um, I then I I believe they are both public records.
Um, and if you need to redact some of the information that's confidential, um, that's fine with me, but I would like I would like the information about this. Um, what information are you after? Um, just what they are like how much and you know, okay, to whom?
Which is they judgments or settlements? Both. Both. Okay. Well, there are no judgments, but um I understand you'd like that. The problem with that is um I I don't want I'll give you I you know I'll give you a date and an amount but I I don't want to give you any information about who the parties are or what the nature of the claim is because people will review this stuff and then you know people can understand that I settled a certain case one way and another case another or whatever.
So, um I'm happy to give you the amounts. I I thought maybe that was done, but we might have done something or redacted production to someone else on a different actually was to you. We gave you asked for a list of all the people on workers comp and all the people on disability.
So, did you also ask for judgments? I did. Yeah. All right. Well, I'll give it to you, but we'll similarly reject redact it. That's fine. Yeah, I mean I think these are pots of money where um you know we we don't have any oversight into you know what happened.
So it's it's helpful information to have. Um and I think yeah, whatever we're legally able to have, I would urge you to redact as little as possible. Well, I'm going to redact I redact what I just said because no, you really don't have any role over it.
And I keep all these types of things, all settlements confidential for any number of reasons, but mostly, you know, if people got a hold of a settlement list and saw that a certain case was settled for this, certain case was settled for that.
This is why in the private sector, everyone who does any type of contract, I'm sure the the chair is familiar with this type of provision in real estate contracts. You mentioned you're a realtor frequently.
AAA provision, you've probably heard of that. All private sector contracts refer to arbitration, not to court because they want everything kept private. Well, in the siminal manner, even though, you know, we're a municipality and we have to be an open book and blah blah blah, I there's a right that the city has to protect its position as far as how it settles cases and what it settles for and and how things are resolved.
And it's very important. And when you talk about protecting taxpayers, this is on protecting taxpayer money by keeping um our settlement approach. Um and and what types of cases we settle, we settle some pothole claims, not all.
And um we'll be getting phone calls from people who see the list that you would like me to produce um saying, "You settled all these pothole claims." he didn't say mine and then it'll become a discrimination case or something.
So I I'm I just am not going to do that. To to to play briefly the devil's advocate, I would be interested in why certain potholes weren't weren't paid for versus other potholes. You know, this is a a chunk a sizable chunk of of public money.
um where where is it going and and could there be you know disparities in how people are treated who come forward with pothole claims? Do you know what I mean? Like that I think that's an important question.
Well, I would hope that you recognize that as a city councelor representing the city of Quinsey, your obligation is to work with us to protect the city of Quinsey and its interests and the interests of, you know, the taxpayers.
We hear about that a lot. Well, I'm protecting the settlement account. And if you want to do some study of whether we settle cases based on whatever study you want to do, you'll have to do it without using this list.
Okay? And I'm just um I I'm being insistent for a reason. It includes like mental impressions of counsel. Why would you know why if why am I settling one case and not another? We have some similar cases and we settle some and not others, but there's a good reason.
But it's never going to be publicly discussed nor publicly disclosed. If you want the breakdown, I'll give it to I'll give you the same type of list we gave you on the workers comp and the uh long-term disability.
No problem with that. Council McGee, I'm going to go to Councelor Ash. Councelor Ash. Thank you. Yes. Um I do think that the the judgments would be public of course. So really what I think the the the discussion is about settlements.
Um I do have to agree with the solicitor. I mean, you're if you're getting into claim valuations and um kind of the valuation of of council, there are so many things that are looked at that I I can I would have to agree with, you know, just giving out a list of of all the pothole claims or all the tree claims or um and and what they settled for.
Certainly um it's it's his department's job to look at a claim and value it based on everything that's in front of them, everything that they know, whether that person's represented. Um certainly um the the merits and the liability.
And I do think that I I would be surprised actually if any municipality did allow that um that that list to be public. I would be I'm not saying I'm not saying it's not possible. I would just be surprised and interested in kind of what provisions and in the redacting process because I could see that that could potentially snowball into an issue.
Um so I would just agree solicitor that's all. Okay. And I'm I'm just going to add to that um solicitor Timmons that I agree that judgments would be public so that that could be looked up but when it comes to settlements some people are just more agreeable to negotiating if you will and and being willing to settle and some people simply won't.
So, you know, sometimes the the disparity between that is the party involved. Um, you know, some people just they won't accept anything. They just want to take everything to court or whatever they want to do.
So, you know, sometimes settlements depend on the person on the other side and whether they're willing to accept $100 for their tire that got blown out or whether they think they, you know, should get $1,000.
I mean, so, um, you know, I do trust that that the solicitor's office does their best to negotiate with people in good faith. I really do believe that. Right. Um, Just council unan. Thank you madam chair woman.
So I have a question about uh item 57 57060 0 the judgments. What what's that mean? Judgments like the the cost on this item. Which number? The judgments. The judgments. The judgment line. Uh 57060 0.
Oh 060. Right. You have a question. Yeah. I'm just want to know uh what's the judgment cost? What's what's that mean? Like uh you you spend money on this item. Could you explain it? Uh what explain what the judgments line is?
Yeah. What is a judgment? If a judgment is entered against the city, it's got to be paid. It's a resolution that comes after Hang on a second. Go ahead, councelor Ash after a trial. So, a judge is telling you whether it's a bench trial, a judge is telling you an amount or if it's a jury trial, the the jury, right?
Um, it's whatever the final judgement, the judge an amount. It could also be on the pleadings as well. It's a court ordered judgment. There's no negotiation. I'm just learning that what's that over and above u the solicitor's offices.
uh perview. He's not going to bill you for that. Okay. So, I just see the historical um trend on this judgment. So, other years seems all spend zero amount of money, but 2023 spend 400,000 on this. Could you give some explanation?
Well, that'll be a year when there was a final judgment in the case and it was a big number. I just I don't remember. Oh, you don't remember this big number spend on water? Well, what year was it? 2020 23, right?
Yeah, I don't remember it. 400,000 spent on this and other year all spend zero money on on this. So, that was probably paid out in a lump sum, solicitor, like a a one-time judgment. Yes. Yeah. I mean, that happens.
Um, as I'm standing here, like I I just don't recall it. You can see from looking at that five-year judgment line. I don't know. So, council is if if a court orders payment, the city has to pay it. I know.
So the judgments are not the the settlements are negotiated with the solicitor's office. Yeah. I just wondering what's that case like spending. He can't recall. Yeah. I'm not sure. I'm sure we could get that.
Yeah, that's something we could find. It's a judgment. It's public. So that's something that could be shared. Okay. um for the for the settlement I see from 2021 all the way to 2026 the spending if I average the six years spending the average spending is 221550 uh dollar so you budget 300 100,000.
So I would like to make a motion to cut 50,000 on this item. Okay. So we have a motion on 570601 settlement line to reduce that line item from 300,000 to 250,000. Correct. 50,000 you said. Yeah. Okay.
So from 300,000 to 250,000. Any discussion on that motion? All those in favor? We have to wait in need. I don't need May I just point out that award counselor should really look hard at that one cuz you cut that settlement budget.
It uh it's cuts my ability to resolve cases. So I think the argument is it hasn't been used. The the reason I I bring I come up this number is I compared the historical trend of this I averaged six years spending on this and average number is 221,550 and then so now even after cut we are still above way above the average spending.
Okay. So, we have the motion. Councelor Hubbley on the motion. Yes. Thank you, Madam Chair. Through you. So, is this going to be one of those scenarios where we say come back before the body if you need more money?
Because as a ward counselor, I'm listening to uh Mr. Timonss and wanting to understand how that could affect the city's performance in complying with a settlement that was established uh with a resident.
And I don't want our residents to be delayed in getting whatever settlement that they've been given. I don't want our ability to negotiate and work with residents to be compromised. Um I think as a ward counselor, um I'd like to understand better.
And I don't even know what the procedure is if it's the middle of the summer and we all have to reconvene to do a beach balls. We just don't enter into any settlement talks. explained, you know, um, in the in the middle of the summer, we'd be okay, but if we don't have money, I'll say we don't have money and we can't settle cases.
Okay. So, that won't affect the performance in terms of what we're able to do, but the expectations of the resident who's waiting for a resolution. Um, I'm just trying to understand better what like what the implications of this cut are.
And I I I do see the tren the through line. I get why we're looking at that number. Um I just want to better understand what the implications are to award counselor as this is being proposed by an atlarge counselor who wouldn't have situation before them.
It would be more of a Q4 problem. Correct. It wouldn't be a summer problem because you're going to have no it'll be at the end like this these past few weeks we've settled one big case because I said to Mr.
Durk and we have enough. Let's get get it resolved now. And he got a very favorable resolution. And then a man who came in and had his electric service wiped out, $2,000. We're settling that. Um we got a car claim that came in.
It's $4,700. So we're settling these cases because we've got the money sitting there. Um but they're all legit good settlements for people. I I just think it represents flexibility to resolve things and that's good for the residents.
I I can I'm fine with if I have to tell people we can't settle cases because we're out of money, we'll do that. But it's not it's not how things have worked the past several years. That's one of the reasons the money sometimes it it shows that there's a bit left at the end of the year.
We managed tightly. So, just I'm just going to add Okay, thank you. Um, if I still have the floor, we can keep my mic on. That would be appreciative. Um, so I guess I don't know what kind of impression that leaves the resident with.
Hey, sorry, we don't have any money right now, but like we'll catch you later. I'm just trying to get I'm trying to really understand it. I'm not trying to be stubborn. I'm just really trying to understand what this might do to my ability to help my residents.
So, I'm still not getting it. So, I can get some help with that. Appreciate it. Who do you want? Is there someone Do you want input from me? Yeah. I just want to I mean, I don't know what to say other other than I mean, I don't see it being a problem until the back end of the fiscal year.
You know, we do the best we can. However, you know, during the winter time, you we get a number of snow claims. You'll get a cluster fences, this or that. And um normally because I have the money we we try to settle those um because of the nature like if it's a fence claim we don't have to settle because we resolve it in the spring but um it just is going to affect flexibility to what extent I don't know it may not be that severe but yeah I have a resident who emails me quite routinely um about a settle a situation that they're in.
And you know, I I'm I'm playing my role in terms of advocating for them, making sure that they're connected up with the right resources within the city, but aside from that, I'm just reading their repeated emails as they await a response on things.
And so, um, you know, one of the things I'm trying to be very good at in my role is when someone reaches out to me, I get back to them either immediately or within 24 hours. And the other thing I'm doing in my role is I'm keeping track of everything that gets to me and escalating to a department and making sure that that response time is also good.
So I get pretty I I get pretty inquisitive when something might affect my response times and our response times which is it's our collective response times. So that's why I'm talking trying to look for some clarification.
I see that um President Mahoney has her hand up. So maybe if you can offer Councelor Jacobs had his hand up first. Go ahead. Councelor Jacobs. So, I'm sorry. Speaking about, you know, settlements, um, you know, you had, you know, we had alluded what would happen if it was summertime, but we know the budget starts in the summertime.
So, we really wouldn't be short money in the summertime. That's when we'd have the most amount of flexibility. It would be more towards like the spring probably when we might start to face some type potentially some type of constraints with that money.
Um, what's the lag time between like the the settlement like when someone calls? So, like obviously we got a lot of fence calls. I worked with Janet over the winter about that. And um like what's the lag time between the you know the um the not the complaint but the uh the concern comes in you know someone goes out and addresses it couple weeks later it gets fixed.
I mean, you know, so you cuz we're talking about, oh, it couldn't, you know, prevent us from being able to act, but I imagine that from the time the call comes in to whenever the repair is made that the money is comes out.
You know, it must be some amount of weeks that goes by between those settlement periods. I mean, at least more than a month. Well, I'm not I don't quite know what you mean. We negotiate. We ask for evidence.
So, yeah. Okay. So, what I'm saying is they have to provide the backup from the time they call from the time they call. Can I finish when I'm I'm answering your question? I'm trying to clarify my question cuz you just said you don't know what I'm talking about.
So, from the time they call until the time the check is cut on average, how much time goes by? It all depends. That's why it's an average. Okay. I'm asking for your professional opinion. How long? If it's a contested claim um and we ask for backup and then we have city people go out, it could go on for 3 months, give or take.
Um if it's not like the general came in, had a very compelling case. He showed me everything about how his this tree came down. He showed me the tree complaints. He showed me what happened and his $2,000 bill.
We sent that right through. He'll have a check in a week. Okay. So, it varies. It there's not really an average. It varies. And some settlements end up being a little contentious and go over a longer period of time.
Okay. But it sounds like we do have like a lot of some cases that take some time, a month, maybe maybe more. Correct. Okay. Thank you. All set. Council Jacobs. I I'm just going to add that, you know, the more you can settle, the less you end up with judgments.
And this does not include your time. This these is just the the amounts that are paid to people. So, you know, if you if you take away the ability to settle, then you're going to end up with more people taking things to court, which is always more expensive.
So, that's just my two cents, Council Mahoney. All right. I appreciate your two cents, and I also appreciate Councelor Hubley's two cents, but did anybody look at the five-year comparison? Because if you looked at the five-year comparison and you averaged it out over the last six years, it actually comes out to 221, which would be a $79,000 cut.
Yes, there were a couple years that we went high. I don't think what we're talking about is going to be, you know, board counselors are not going to be affected. We are at we're in fiscal year 2026 right now and we're at 217,000.
If you have 300,000 in the budget, you got plenty of room. I think I don't want to be saying that anybody's trying to put out any kind of dog whistles like well counselors get careful because we might you might need it.
It's not that situation at all. We're in a situation where we're trying to look at where in the budget that doesn't affect people but does affect taxpayers. If the average is 221 over the last six years, it's very reasonable to say you can take a cut of 79,000 if you're doing the average.
Council UN did 50. I don't think it's unreasonable. But I I'm not going to say that. I'm going to lean that over to to Mr. Timmons and and you know what would be reasonable? I don't know. But I I don't think it's unreasonable.
What's the question? No, I think you should just vote. I just said I don't think it's unreasonable. The average is six years is is actually $80,000. Yeah, but we're not at the number you said for this year.
What are we at then? Pardon? What are we at? 2179. What are we at? You said you were not at the number that you said this year. So, what are we at? I don't what number are we at? I don't know if you heard me say we've settled um three cases totaling 51,000 and we have a couple more that I'm working on through the uh balance of the week cuz we had roughly I I think it was 82,000 left and so and so we were looking at other cases that could be resolved.
Um, you're going to you're going to spend 82,000 in two weeks. Well, we've already we've gone through 54. We have these cases all lined up, but we know we're talking about it's like pull the Smith case, pull the Jones case, and let's see what you can do.
I gave that case that uh solicit Durkin settled, assistant solicit Durkin settled. I can appreciate that. gave that to him because it was a case a lawyer called about and we knew that I said tell him we're at the end of the year we have some money and we got a good settlement.
Yep. So I can appreciate that. But the last two years you're 217 this year you were 221 last year. You're 147 the year before and you had money on the table then but we weren't settling in. So, I'm just I'm just trying to ask the average that is there room in this average that we could she's What year was the 147?
2024. Okay. Well, you have the five-year look back, right? You know, frankly, like you folks, I have explained things. I've represented what I think is in the city's best interest. I've been doing this for a while.
It's these are numbers that have proven out. The fact that something's left at the end of the year I happen to think isn't a bad thing, but I think the council should do whatever it deems appropriate.
Okay. And I think it's all been aired out and I thank the chair for allowing that. Okay. So, we we have a motion on the table to reduce this line item. Take a roll call vote unless there's further discussion.
Council Dana. No. Council Hubley. Oh, on the motion. Oh, on the motion, Council Huby. Yes. Thank you, Madam Chair. Just to cap off and then we can go into a roll call vote. Um, it's incredibly important for me that we are able to quickly respond to residents.
So, it doesn't matter who raises the concern that a certain budget item impact might affect our responsiveness. I'm going to ask the questions that I think need to be asked until I'm done with my until I get my answer.
And so, I appreciate everyone indulging the questions. If someone's going to raise the the possibility that I'm not going to be able to respond to a constituent in a timely manner, I want to make sure that that we flush that out.
So, I appreciate the indulgence and fine to go ahead with the vote. Council Ash, no. Council Devon, no. Council Hubley, yes. Council Jacobs, yes. Council Mahoney, yes. Council McKe, yes. Council Ryan, yes.
Council, yes. Chairman Riley, yes. Motion passes. Okay. Can we Oh, yes. We need to um we need to all agree to suspend rule 24. It's 11 o'clock. Anyone opposed? Okay. Pardon me. Okay. I think we're done with you, Solicitor Tim.
Oh. Oh, I'm sorry. A motion to approve the um budget in it as amended. All those in favor? Excellent. Okay. Okay. Yes, we did. Do you do this from your seat, Mr. Walker? No, you don't go up to the phone.
No. Okay. You want me to? We are going to start with um the mayor's office. Through you, Madam Chairwoman. Thank you very much. Um, as this body knows, the mayor's office is sort of the the grand central station of our operation.
Um, all departments, with the exception of obviously this body, report to the mayor's office. Uh the budget this year's level service uh includes the mayor, myself, uh director of operations, director of communications, uh two member team of uh constituent services, uh two administrative assistants, uh the community liaison, which this body will remember was a request uh of this body to add uh to the team uh a few years ago and we are otherwise level service.
Okay. Um, do we have a motion to approve or discussion first? Councelor Ash. Um, my only question I believe you said Mr. Walker constituent services is two individuals. That is correct, sir. Okay, that's all.
Council McKe. Uh, hi Chris. Um, thank you for all your answers before. Um you mentioned that three department employees are paid by grants or other sources, right? Um can you tell me which employees and how much of their salary and what sources?
So we have um as noted we have uh media director who is funded from Comcast fees um and we have two project managers who are funded from uh hotel motel tax/quinsey 400 two and all of their that those salaries are 100% uh funded by those positions those those funding sources sorry two project managers funded by hotel motel tax is that That is correct.
Subsequent previous appropriations from this body, I believe there were two last year um that came in uh during various times of the year. What what do those project project managers do? They manage projects uh through you mad madam chairwoman um in particular one uh works closely with the business community on a number of initiatives.
uh in other works research does uh assist for example was very helpful on the ENC compiling the uh ENC uh piece um and also related to their work um as part of the the Quinsey 400. It's been sort of a continuation to some degree of of last year obviously to a much less extent.
Um but a number of the events we have planned um going forward um they've had major roles in in those. Okay. Thank you. Um and then you said there was one city vehicle and does that who is that the mayor's vehicle and does that go home with him?
that is the mayor's vehicle. It does not go home with him unless there's a very rare occasion where um he needs to be someplace in the morning. He has a night event, maybe needs to be someplace in the morning.
Um generally speaking, uh the mayor drives his personal vehicle to the office and uses the vehicle. Um, and I think I mentioned this to you that probably half the time uh during the day um he'll use the the city vehicle and half the time he'll use his personal vehicle.
And does he have a driver all the time or sometimes? Just sometimes. Just sometimes. Okay. And is that paid out of the mayor's budget? No, that's actually security. I I I would be reluctant to call it driver.
Um that is a occasional security detail uh from the police department that he has um that does provide a a a transportation component. Um particularly when there are multiple events uh in a row where getting in and out uh it can be a little bit problematic.
um those sorts of things, but in also larger events uh where the police department wants to have uh someone with the mayor. Okay. Um and then the commissioner of public buildings when he was before us mentioned that many or perhaps most of his appointed positions come to him from the mayor's office.
And I just wondered what sorts of processes do you have in place to ensure fairness in job announcements, interviewing and hiring through you, Madam Chairwoman. You know, the mayor is the the appointing authority.
Um, every job application, every uh position that is hired is ultimately approved by the mayor. There are uh a number of uh cases, instances. It sort of runs the gamut. Um the department heads um follow a hiring practice through human resources in a lot of cases.
Uh and there are cases where folks have inquired to our office directly about available positions. Um and that's when we would get involved. There's also um I believe it was counselor it has come up in the past um a number of years ago some of the the jobs weren't necessarily posted online but most most jobs now are posted online.
Um so I would say it covers the range um from department heads handling most of the hiring process to from the application process up to appointing and making the recommendation to the mayor to direct recommendations from from the mayor.
Okay. Um and then um I had asked for information about like the community liaison position um the kind of quantitative number of calls or um visits. Um what I received was not quantitative. Um, and I don't see him here, but I'm just wondering, council, are you referring to constituent services or community liaison?
No, the community liaison. Okay. My understanding was the question relative to quantitative was more related to constituent services and you more so wanted um a general description on community liaison um which I which we did provide.
Yes. I guess I I was asking for both the quantitative for both of those. Okay. I I'm happy to follow up um and provide a little bit more detail, a little bit more meat on the bone to what um the community leaison does.
Yeah. Um, that would be good because I think what what I'm seeing and I know that um I was one of the people who really advocated hard for the um equity director position um in the end the community liaison position is not an equity position but um a a different position that sounds like it's sort of more trying to help constituents understand, you know, what services are available to them.
Um, and uh I'm just concerned that that's kind of similar to the constituent services. Um, I position. Yeah. through through you, Madam Chairman. I I appreciate the question. I think um this position has made inroads into groups and organizations um in the in the equity realm.
uh has created a space for people to feel comfortable um discussing the issues that they have which my recollection uh was at least a a a major component of the onus to create the position. um working with various community organizations, Bayate Community Services, Interfaith, a number of those sorts of places in that space where people can feel comfortable um having those conversations, you know, from a practical standpoint.
Also, the the the position is running and expanding our language access program through the planning department. So, it's been very helpful to have someone um who is in communication with the various agencies that help us with that and can coordinate on a uh on a dime to get those services uh provided.
And um you know, as Mr. Fats probably mentioned, I think during his presentation, that we're continuing to expand that operation. Um we're providing more language access uh than we have uh at any time in the past, which I think is certainly a good thing.
uh and this position has been very helpful in doing that. Um this person also works with our uh com commission on disabilities directly. Again, a group that um going back to the premise of providing a voice and a space for a number of these groups.
Um he has been quite helpful in providing that that listening board and that sounding board and gauging uh what those what issues there are. So, I I do think um there there's definitely been some quantitative uh results.
Thank you. I think um I think we'll be very interested in in seeing them. um what I've I I've met with um the community liaison and and um I' I've asked to meet with him and he he was gracious with his time, but I am concerned about um how much is happening there and trying to quantify um quantify his position in terms of of outreach.
some of the goals that are listed um seem like things that might have been done already and these been in the position for a few years. So to continue to build upon the existing relationships between city departments and agencies while forging new relationships through the lens of multiculturalism, continue to create greater visibility of the role.
Um gather metrics over time to track issues trends throughout the city. create a database that lists agencies and community groups throughout the city to be used as a resource. Build upon the community liaison website.
Um, I guess I'm just all of these seem I know when when I uh heard him on QAV talking about things, it was that he wanted to create greater visibility for the role. And I'm I just think we need to be a bit more ambitious um for this position.
So, I I personally don't think this is a full-time position, but I'm I'm willing to just um I guess leave it for this year, but I'm hoping that we'll we'll see more um over the coming year. You lost it.
Council council I have a question about yeah follow up with councelor McKe's question. So I would like to know what's different job uh description between community neon and the constituent service. How how many position in constituent services?
Two. Two. Yes. And I I know one is multi- can provide a multi- language service and how about another one? That that is correct. Uh it is a team of two uh with one having a very specific designation with multilang multilingual services specifically serving our uh Asian-American community.
And another one also multi. No. Okay. And how about the community leazison? Is he also speak multi- language? I'm not I'm not 100% sure counselor. And what's the major difference between these two roles?
Sure. The constituent services team um handles direct constituent requests um running the the the wide range of um service calls uh in-person visits, phone calls, emails, um the online system, the basic stuff of constituent services, um parking issues, traffic issues, um construction management issues, issues, um the tree issues, um those calls often first find their way to our office.
And these these folks um work work very hard um ma managing those requests um spreading it out to the departments and then tracking um to the best of their ability um the results. Um I would say and I provided some information to council McGee that constituent services there's probably between an average a dozen calls visits a day.
Um and that certainly can spike depending on if there's a major issue in a particular neighborhood. Um you could have 20 to 30 uh calls, visits, emails uh in a day um that the these folks handle. The community liaison position is something um I I find in entirely separate.
Um it was based off of a request from this council um to create a role um within the DEI space to forge some relationships, create sounding board um build um relationships with some of these outside agencies, providing space and providing opportunity for people to discuss uh and get have access to the city that they may not felt that they have had previously again.
And that requires a lot of work with some of our uh non-governmental partners um Bay Community Services, Interfaith, those types of places. Um Quincy Pride, th those types of uh arenas. Um that is has been the responsibility of this position to get into.
Um I I view the two things as entirely separate. Oops. And and I just add that the specific function on repeating that our language access program um this pos that position is responsible for uh as well followup your statement you said this role uh function like a sounding board but you mayor's office also have a director of communications and you have a constituent service.
I just feel you add another community leis is kind of redundant and we don't want to the government to become bigger and bigger. So for for this reason I would like to make a motion to cut this line 510 017.
Okay, we have a motion to cut 510 017 community lays on 92,564. Yes. Any discussion on the motion? Council Devana. Thank you, Madam President. Um or Madam Madam Chair, I'm sorry. Um, I mean, with the wishes of of Council McKe, she said she'd be offering to to say, "Listen, we just need a little bit more and we'll give another year." Um, I'm just pleading with you um to cut an entire position like this.
It's been in existence for the last 3 to four years, I believe. Um, the person's been working in the community, nonprofits, everything that Mr. Walker said um and there was definitely a um prior to this there was a um almost like an ad hoc committee where um councelor Ian Kaine was on that committee to kind of form this position.
So um with the wishes of of prior councils and um the city I mean a lot of a lot of folks like like activists in the city wanted wanted to have this position. So, um I would just ask you to maybe give give another year if you could and um I hope the other counselors would just give another year and and see if we could we could kind of have some updates on on this particular position rather than just cut it tonight.
Thank you. Council Hugely was next. Thank you, Madam Chair, through you. So I followed all of the council deliberations for the definition of this role. It was actually a department at one point but it got kind of it makes sense that it's part of the executive team.
Um I followed the formation of it when this individual started. Um I witnessed well reached out to me uh just because of my involvement in so many different organizations throughout the community whether it's QCAP uh even running Porchfest, Wallist Hill, other things that I contribute to to proactively identify all the different constituency groups and I've witnessed this person going on QAV to um communicate their message.
I've seen this person continuously working through to network to be approachable, right? And part part of why, you know, if you follow me on social media, you see I go to a lot of different events, a lot of different places, work with a lot of different groups.
And that's because I like to meet people where they are. And I feel like not everyone really enjoys getting up in front of hundreds of people and speaking into a microphone at open forum. more most people would prefer to take you aside at the playground or at the PTO event and and express their concerns or their thoughts or their feelings.
And I've seen this individual doing both at the macro level when it comes to identifying organizations, networking as well as the the micro going into meet with individuals and um you know I had a situation where uh I I had a child in my care through foster care and this individual was proactive and reached out and helped connect me with some resources in the community that helped us provide for the needs of this child.
Um so I think uh to look at this position and say hey this seems redundant. Um I can say that I absolutely do not think this is a redundant role based upon my personal experience working uh with this individual and seeing their activi activities throughout the community.
And it's creating relationships with different groups, groups that maybe hadn't had a relationship with the city or hadn't had as much of a relationship with the city as they would like to. That's not a oneanddone.
It's not build a list and then we we use the list. It's it's a relationships get cultivated. And so for that reason, based upon what I've heard, I don't know that what I've heard justifies eliminating the position.
So, I wouldn't be in favor of doing so based upon what I've heard. I don't think the case is there. Thank you. Okay. I'm going to see if any anyone else anyone else have want to comment who has not on the motion?
You all set? Okay. Go ahead, council. You Oh, just a follow up with councelor Dona and counselor Hubley's comment. I do hear you and every positions once you once you create you always will have some job descriptions.
So what how can you justify this kind of stuffing in last four years and every position you will say yeah that that that employee in that pos in that position will do some work but I'm just wondering how come in last four years you can increase more than 400 positions in the city so for that reason I I know it's very difficult to cut a position once you already pro uh once you already create that position people already work in that position is very hard to cut but we have to start somewhere we otherwise if you keep keep hiring in this speed all those all those employees salary health insurance pension all paid by regular the taxpayers and if you increase if your hiring speed is that that much that's really create a concern to resident to tax payers so I really would like to start now we need a really more pay more attention to the hiring to the to the those job created if it's not really completely necessary if you always can give some say this person did some job I I don't say he doesn't do anything but uh I think when the city and the one and the two billion dollar dep you do have to streamline the the the um the work the if you can consolidate you should the work the job position if you can consolidate you should consolidate but if you keep hiring in on this speed that's alarming I don't think if residents know that they will agree last four years increased more than 400 positions so okay council for this reason yeah yeah so do you have the motion yeah I have the motion
to councelor Ash would like to speak. Um, thank you, Madam Chair. Uh, respectfully, I just I wouldn't want to conflate the the hiring with one position. I remember how important it was for the city council prior to my tenure um to have this uh liaison, this DEI role and I remember how um how opinionated people were on each side.
I I found it at the time to be, you know, necessary and um I know that I know the individual he works hard and sure he's actually, you know, we met just last month about introductions to the faith leaders in in Quinsey Point and I obviously is representing may not be obvious but as representing one of the um more diverse areas of the city.
Um, I found that conversation certainly uh welcoming and his his mission at that moment was how to connect with with different faith backgrounds and I can appreciate that there may maybe need for some metrics um or some a more defined job role.
I do think that the previous um the council that you know had the undertaking and the task to hire and to to ask the mayor to create this position at that point they met the burden of of get of of their mission to have this hire.
I don't know that what in front of us is going to necessarily meet the burden to to eliminate it. I guess I would look at it as a as a a burden of proof issue if you will. So, um, those are that's my my opinion on it.
Um, I can appreciate, you know, needing maybe some more defined roles, some metrics, um, some bullet points and whatnot, but that would be my my suggestion. Thank you. Thank you, councelor Rash. Oh, God.
Did does anyone who hasn't spoke want to say anything? No. Councelor Ryan, hang on a second. Where am I? Ryan, go ahead. to you, Madam Chair. Thank you. Um, taking a look at the two constituent services positions along with the diversity inclusion officer, it might look like there is a um similarity in what they're doing.
But with DEI positions being eliminated all over the country, um I would be a little bit reluctant to eliminate the position. Okay. Thank you, Council Ryan. Council Huby, you all set or did you want to go first?
Thank you through you. Yeah, I think when you if you were watching the formation of this department and I'm not too sure how many of us watched the formation of this sorry not department the role. I'm not too sure how many people were watching the formation of this role and I'm not too sure how many of us have been involved with this position's role but maybe to go back a little bit and I don't want to drag everyone through all of it but I think the salient point that I'd like to make amongst all those discussions is I think the city at the time prior to this positions creating create creation thought that they had the amount of staffing to handle the volume of constituent services and I Think the case that was made by previous council was that yes sure I'm I'm sure the meanantime to repair the average response time is probably there but I think they felt that um without this role there were a lot of groups that so think of it like they felt like they were getting they were handling all the calls and and the inquiries they were getting but I think the in the creationist position was motivated more by the fact that they thought the inquiries being were being suppressed and that we could only open up and make people feel comfortable and better about interacting with their government if we did some outreach and some proactive um actions into constituencies that traditionally we hadn't.
And so I think I would look at this as a efficiency position for sure. And I think the performance of this position based upon my visibility in the community since it started um has added value. And so I I think you can look at this and say, "Hey, this seems redundant and oh, by the way, we've hired 400 people." I I think sure you can do that.
Um, but you know, having experience personally, having been a CEO of an organization that had about 30 employees, having been a vice president of a division that had 54 employees, it doesn't really work that way.
Um, I don't think this is as much a numbers game. I I don't think you can take an individual position and then up overburden that position's decision-making process with global statistics of volume employees.
I'll leave it at that. Thank you. Okay, I'll just go right down. Councelor Deona. Um, thank you, Madam Chair. This particular position was really mounted from the city council level. Um, we we pleaded with Mr.
Walker and we pleaded with the mayor to kind of put this position in. And the reason why we did it, it was it was spearheaded by Nina Leang and Byron Palmucci as well as Ian Kaine eventually and myself that this was a position that the people of the city of Quinsey came to us and said we need to do a DEI um position in the city of Quinsey.
We're behind other towns and cities are doing them. Um we felt pressure from the city um the residents of the city. So, they formed a basically a commission and they worked it out and they pleaded with the mayor that we needed this in the city.
It's worked out really well. Um, I could understand where you're coming from. Um, but there was a lot of activists that were I was fielding a lot of emails and calls and the public was really on us to make sure that we we we funded a position like this.
So, as a commission, as an ad hoc committee, we asked the mayor and Mr. Walker to fill this position. So, it was something that we asked for. Um, I can't speak for Council Mahoney. I don't know if she was involved, but I know that I got a lot of pressure from the outside.
And we hired a person of color. I mean, you look at the diver diversity up here on the city council. Um, we hired a person of color and this person's involved with helping other people. So, um, it go it goes across, you know.
So, um, I I respectfully ask, um, my my fellow counselors if you could leave this in leave this position. Thank you. Thank you. I'm going to let Council McKe go one and then I'll let you Okay, Council McKe.
So, I was one of the loudest people asking for this position. Um and um I wish it had been the position that I had asked for. Um the mayor said that he didn't see the need for an equity department. Um and so it was called community liaison.
And the idea at the time was to increase people's awareness of what services the city had. Um I feel that um I feel that this position really needs a lot more structure to it. Um and um I I'm happy to work uh with the administration on trying to do that.
I don't want to um I think I I want to give this position another year, but I I don't think this is what I would call an EDI position. And um and I think that um I don't understand exactly what what's happening um with this position.
So I do have concerns that it may not be as um uh effective as it could be. So, but I will I will work with the administration and I will um vote to keep this around for another year because I don't want to suddenly cause someone to lose a position in two weeks.
Agreed. Thank you, Council Mahoney. Um so I hang on. Go ahead. I agree with Councelor McGee on this not cutting it for this year, but I I'm going to counter something that council Dona said. So, councelor Deona, um, it's not the position that people wanted.
It was a compromise and this is not, you know, what happened is not what was looking for if the community was not looking for it. And there's been several things that have happened when you're looking for it.
You know, you're saying we're looking to see how we can integrate maybe people of all different backgrounds into all different things, whether it's the high school. I like to always say like you really should be able to look at a community and and recognize everybody who's representing them or working in their community whether it's in the schools or in the in the police or in the fire or in city hall and you know we have a person that's community liaison but I don't see anybody in working with anybody and I I'm saying this out loud because I have talked to him working with departments to see how we can recruit different people of different backgrounds and and diversity includes just you does not always mean a person of color.
It doesn't always mean many of the things that people think it does. It means people with handicaps. You know, somebody who might be deaf can work in your and and be you could have you could you could find out you have a family that's deaf and you want to make sure that their sign language is at the the Pride Festival or might be having it at the farmers market or it could be somebody that's visually impaired.
And in a city, mostly in a city, especially when you have MBTA roots, you'll have more people with disabilities that live in the city because they're opportunities to be able to be involved in the community.
So, no, this is not it wasn't about going out talking to interfaith or we already have that. We know we have relationships with that. It was really about finding ways that we could bring more people who may be isolated because of their situation, whether it's their physical or mobility or their lack of things to the community.
And you know, I worked with many of those people. I met Maggie in some of the things that we were doing. It it's an important piece of what community should be doing and it should be interactive in between not just in the community liaison piece but it should also be working with HR it should be working through it should be working with the schools to see how we can recruit people how we can we get how can we get more people it's also somebody that could also potentially help I I will say helping with the um the management of language barriers that sounds like a good plan but what doesn't seem like happens in this position which happens in a lot of positions which is you know I met him He's a great person.
He's doing a good job. He's a good boy. He's a good great guy. Whatever you want to say, but there's no goals. And that's what's what's missing from this role. There's no goals and there's no because it checked a box.
And that's what I don't like about positions like this is you're checking a box for a community to say you did it as opposed to doing it right. And you know that I I know many people who think that it's a great thing to work in a municipality.
You don't have to actually do anything. No show job. I'm not saying that that's what this person's doing. But I am saying that sometimes that's what happens because there's no goals and no, you know, no discussion with the the with necessarily the people who can help shape that and no desire for that to happen either.
So I'm not going to cut this position tonight, but I am going to ask Damen to come up before us and talk to us and see how we can help him because maybe he has asked those questions and he hasn't had a supportive group of people to help him navigate what he wants to navigate.
But I I can guarantee you that that was not the role that people were asking for and I'm glad that you were supportive, but I don't remember you being at many of the things because I was okay. Um I I'm just going to take privilege.
I agree with mostly Have you had a chance, David? Okay, David, go ahead. Councel Jacobs, go ahead. So, I just want to just let everyone know the audience on TV here. I I heard what was said. Um, I was planning on supporting cutting this position um when it was um proposed um after listening to people here.
Um I'm changing my mind. I've heard some things people come in with their their minds made up. Well, I just changed my mind. Um, you know, I have heard from this gentleman on a few occasions and after just listening, um, to council Mahoney what she just said, um, you know, when I would get emails from him, you know, he was like, I'd like to meet with you.
And, you know, now that I'm thinking back on it, I think he's emailing us because he has a lack of guidance. You know, I mean, he's actually he's asking us for help. And I think it's because he's not really getting that help, you know, in the current place that he is right now.
So, um, you know, just from listening, you know, to councelor Hubley, councelor Mahoney, councelor Deona, uh, councelor McKe, I'll be changing I am going to be changing my mind. I'm going to be voting to, uh, keep this position for, for this year.
Okay. I, um, I'm going to take some privilege and I feel the same way. I think that the role is not what was intended when there was a push for this position to be created, but if we cut it now, we'll never get it back.
Um, and you know, I think that the individual, we've all we've all certainly had interactions, probably just needs a little more structure, a little more guidance, a little some goals to be set. And you know, I I agree with Council McKe, that you know, there's a whole year to be able to try to uh reshape this rule.
And um so I would not be voting in favor of cutting it. So council yen, I think we're ready to take our vote. We really are. What's that? We we're all ready to take our vote, but go ahead. I'll give you I will give you a minute.
Just clarify this is about the position, not about the person. So has nothing to do with people have color. Myself is people have color, right? So it's really not about the person is the position the job description what what's this supposed to do if we found it's redundant we trying to consolidate that's how you make the government more efficient especially when your government the whole city is in the huge debt and the government if keep hiring in last four years you hire more than 400 you increase more than 400 positions that's alarming.
So I would like to discuss with my colleagues also discuss with the mayor with administration how do we deal with this kind of high hiring spree because taxpayers really couldn't afford this kind of hiring honestly and I would like to take a vote on this motion.
Okay. Which motion and to cut to cut I have I have listened all this so I can take my motion back like uh but I do want to bring this to people's attention. How how are we I think we've accomplished that council yen.
I think we've accomplished that with all of this dialogue. So you can either withdraw it or we can bring it forward for a vote. What's your preference? And yeah, I can withdraw it as long as So we'll withdraw that one.
Pay attention to this staffing level. Okay. Council Mahoney, I have a cut for premium pay 510193 by $780 to bring the amount down to 3,120, okay, asked for by Chris Walker. So line item 510193 premium pay reduce that from $3900 to $3,120 on the motion.
Any discussion? We'll take a roll call. Council Ash, yes. Council Deono, Council Hubley, yes. Council Jacobs, yes. Council, yes. Council, yes. Council Ryan, yes. Council, yes. Yes. And others. Motion to approve this budget as amended.
Any discussion? Okay. Director of Hang on. Hang on. Sorry. Director of communications um 510401. I'd like to cut $3,661 bringing it back to $122,04 because we're supposed to have a you know Okay. 510401 Director of Communications.
The the uh motion is to cut that line item from 25,665. Cut it by 3,661. And what's the the math? It's going to be one. It's going to be that's just what it was before. 122004. It would go down to what?
12 122004. Okay. Is that a union position? I think it's an appointee. It's an appointee. It's an appointee. Okay. So on the motion, any discussion? It's basically just level setting it. I have a motion to approve that amendment first.
Oh, Madam Chairwoman. Oh, sorry. Do you hang on? Go ahead. Just just to the general policy when it's come to um wage increases that what we have included in this budget and has been um recommended in previous departments was everyone outside of the department head um at the mid level um were awarded were allotted the 3% raise that the the unions were.
I'm just throwing that out there. So this would be a little bit of an anomaly as to what we've done. um with the other departments noted. Um any further discussion on the motion? Council Huley. Yeah. Thank you, Chair Riley.
Um I threw you I guess I'd like to hear a little bit more of a rationale behind the change behind the the cut before I kind of like to know why we're cutting before we just cut. I think it's just level setting without an increase.
Be a level set budget, right? But but don't all the other positions have the same 3% increase to two. Yeah. Council Jacobs, please. Mr. Walker made that clarification. Um, but why this one? I'm going to do another one.
Council Jacobs, please. I don't have your mic on, so you can't I won't be able to and I'm going to get people criticizing me for that. Um, well, we have a motion to accept the budget as amended with just the cut to 510193.
So, we would have to take a roll call vote on that in order to entertain any further cuts. So, on the motion to accept as amended. Okay. Council Rash, yes. Council Debar, yes. Council Hubley, yes. Council Jacobs, no.
Council Mahoney, yes. Council McKe, yes. Council Ryan, yes. Council, we're accepting the budget as amended with line item 510193 is the only amendment that we've made. Yes. Chairman Riley. Yes. Motion passes.
Okay. Moving on. Moving on to celebrations. Will you, Madam Chair? Oh, wait. Sorry. Sorry. There you go. This budget is level funded. This budget, as the body knows, uh, goes to pay for various events across the city running from the large to small.
um things like the Christmas parade, things like Lunar New Year, things like August Moon, um a number of other events like that. Um it is level funded. Okay. Do we have any discussion on this budget, Council McKe?
So, um what criteria are used to determine which celebrations get funded? Um because I've noticed that for example the Boy Scout breakfast um has received $28,000 from celebration since 2019 with the amount increasing from about $1,500 to $8,300 per year in that time.
And I just I feel like there might be other organizations that would appreciate receiving city funding for their events. So how does that get decided through you, Madam Chairwoman? councelor. It it depends on the request of the organization, the size of the events, um the ability of the group to fund uh the event.
Um there there's a wide range of of factors that go into it. It's uh case by case basis. Um outside of the the direct funding to specific city events, um it's generally working with those outside organizations and and coming up with the number that that we is agreed to be appropriate.
So other organizations could come to the mayor's office to or the c who would they appeal to the mayor's office. Okay. Um similarly uh about venues which venues what criteria are used to determine which venues are chosen vendors uh venues I see a lot for example from like terail room yeah again it it it depends on size scope of event um there are some events that require for example the size of the ter room there are some events that may may require a a smaller venue.
Um there have been events in the past that have required the the largest venue at the Marriott, for example, uh or or Grant Links. Um that really just depends on the event itself and the the size of the anticipated uh public audience.
Um and then I have a question about the Quinsey Foundation. Um, it's received $1.1 million in city funding, mostly through the celebrations account in the past 20 years. Um, but I can't find this organization listed in the secretary of state's corporations database.
And it says there was a 2024 ledger story that said the foundation receives the money raised through the mayor's cup golf tournament tournament held annually at Granite Lakes. Um and and that story said that the foundation provides funding for flag day and Christmas parades.
Um and then but the city's data showed that the city has paid the Quinsey Foundation for these parades and other events and some of those events are just listed as like events and it's not really clear what they are.
Um, so in 2025, the city paid the Quinsey Foundation $100,000 for the two parades. So what can you tell me about this organization and um, Sure. who runs it through through you, Madam Chairwoman? Um, I don't have all the details.
I can say uh as it is a a private nonprofit um I can say that this is historically this was the group that um it was the Christmas parade festival committee. It was uh the flag day committee. Um they were uh essentially consolidated uh into uh one entity with um a goal of furthering um some additional charity work.
But th this is essentially the entity um that historically has paid for uh through contributions from the city. There's obviously as you've seen through this account, there's always been contributions from the city.
Um some years are different than others depending on um the committee's needs. Um but this is the the group that has historically run um our two major parades um and that also does additional charity work.
I can see if I can find like I don't I don't have a tax ID number one on hand. Um, you know, I know it is it's a 501c4, not a 501c3. I'm aware of that. Um, I don't know if that makes a difference if it come when it comes to the Secretary of State's office and the filings.
Um, but whatever information, I'm sure we can reach out to the group and figure out um and get get all the proper information that you request. Yeah, it might be helpful to have an oversight hearing about that um just because the lack of information about them um is concerning.
That's it. Anyone else? Council. Thank you, Madame Chairwoman. So, um follow up that question the celebration including all those parades correct how many parades each year so through you madam chairwoman it it depends uh from year to year if you look through the the histories um there are years where um there's a larger contribution for either flag day or the Christmas parade or the Christmas uh weekend celebration Um it just it has varied from year to year, but essentially it is the the two major parades uh and the weekend of uh Thanksgiving weekend, which also includes the the tree lighting and uh Santa used to be Santa parachute, now it's Santa helicopter.
Um and the parade as well that weekend. I' I'd be happy to have a discussion about the reason why we went from Santa parachute to Santa helicopter if at some point of time we all remember. So July 4th also have a parade.
July 4th uh there is no central um city uh event. our our patriotic event of the year has historically for the last 75 years have has been centrally um flag day um which was this past weekend. Um there are uh neighborhood uh very popular, very uh traditional, very historic uh neighborhood uh events on July 4th.
Uh Squanum has a wonderful parade and the city provides assistance. I don't know, there might be some money out of this account in historically that has that has helped support that. Um, Mry Mount has a terrific parade um on July 4th.
Uh, there's the O'Hara Circle uh bike parade. Um, but we do not have a a focused central city July 4th uh event. And uh we also have a Memorial Day parade, right? Yes. And those are largely run uh perhaps some assistance through this account but largely out of veteran services uh both the Memorial Day parade, the Veterans Day parade.
Um those are uh smaller in nature when it comes to the parade. I think the the ceremony in the event itself uh the symbolic importance of those events are uh they're more solemn um than than these major celebration celebratory events um and the ceremonies that are part of those days are a little bit different than a lot of the things that we would fund out of this budget council.
And so I have a question. the Memorial Day uh parade. We have a city have a Memorial Day parade. Police department have a Memorial Day parade and the firefighter department also have a memorial day. So though through you madam chairwoman those are three distinct uh events um two of them the on Sundays in June uh on I believe it's the first and second Sunday in June.
Uh one, uh the police have a police memorial um to honor uh fallen police officers. Um that is not funded through this budget. Um similarly uh almost identically the fire department has a fire memorial uh where they honor uh their fallen brothers and sisters.
Um and then Memorial Day is of course the national holiday of Memorial Day where we honor uh the men and women who sacrificed their lives uh in service of the country. And so does that three parade every year happen like every year you have a cities memorial parade in the police and the fire every year like that?
Yes. And I'm just considering maybe consolidate three parade. Does does that work? Because more people can get involved and more people understood council except that there are three very distinct things.
Um the police memorial is specifically for police officers who have died in the line of duty. The fire memorial is specifically for firefighters who have died in the line of duty. And of course, Memorial Day is for the men and women of our armed services who have died in the line of duty.
Um they are uh quite distinct. Okay. I I was thinking put together the more people can or enjoying the three parade. So another question. So the expense on the parade is meaning for security or for what's the c which which parade like a flag day parade or anything.
Yeah. So the the major the the expenses out of out of the budgets that's that is before you um would be for anything ranging from the talent involved in the parade floats um anything pretty much related to uh the parade itself.
I do not believe security would be involved in that. um from I mean the Flag Day parade has uh bands. Um there's a fee associated with that. Um there are fees associated with any number of of groups that might be participating in the parade.
There's a fee associated obviously with running the operation, the flag raising and the fireworks. Uh the fireworks of course are donated. Um but there are uh substantial costs involved in in running a parade.
Um, okay. Uh, I'm just thinking like, uh, can we kind of recruit more volunteers doing these things because I think people would like to to volunteer for all those wonderful parade and by that also can save some cost for the city.
We actually counselor through you um do have a lot of volunteers uh that work during the parades. Um there is certainly a paid component to it, but um anyone who was at Flag Day this past weekend would have noticed uh folks in the the blue flag day committee shirts um that those are the people those people are volunteering uh and there's a good number of them.
They get the parade off the off the starting point. They try to keep it running smoothly. Uh, everyone hates a parade that stops for 15 minutes and has gaps and those sorts of things. And you know, specifically when it comes to the Flag Day parade, um the the key element of the Flag Day parade has always historically been all of the youth groups that participate marching with their with their groups and their flags and coordinating uh that that logistically uh is quite a task.
Uh and that is all done uh by volunteers. So, so the major cost is by making the floats. Uh there's some fees paid by Yeah, there's some there's some cost to that. There's also the the bands that march.
Um there's a fee associated with that. Um and a number of other items. You pay those bands to Sure. because we like to attract for specifically, you know, for the Christmas parade and the Flag Day parade, we attract national nationally recognized marching bands.
And there's a there's a cost associated with that. It takes time and effort to book uh those places. They get booked uh pretty early on in the year and and folks uh we have the the committee that works on it.
um they circle the group of bands that they want. Um and we take great pride uh in the quality of the participants in the parade, especially the quality of the marching band parade. Now, it doesn't cost any money for us to have necessarily the the Quinsey North Quinsey High uh marching band, which if going back over the last several years, the folks who have attended the parade every year know how much uh that band, that group has grown uh as part of this parade over the last several years.
And uh what I want to say is and at this time the the economic is not so good and the debt is so big everyone is tighten the belt. If we have to cut, we can't. We just said we don't want to cut people's position.
But then what else we can cut for maybe something not urgent or very necessary. Maybe we can cut because um you everything have you you know the spending have to be prioritized otherwise how can we how can we give taxpayers a break?
we have to find some way to cut the budget. So, uh by saying that that's I suggest the volunteers maybe the float can make a people donate money to make the floats. I think uh it's the spirit of the parade count more than the formality or cost.
By that I would like to make a motion to cut the celebration budget of uh cut 50,000. I think when everyone tighten the belt, we we can cut something not so urgent or necessary. One second. Okay. So, the motion on 570800 celebrations reduce that from $300,000 cut by 50 to 250,000.
Okay. Discussion on the motion. Council Hubbley. Thank you, Madam Chair. Yeah, on the motion. So, I've listened to my colleagues and their questions about the different events. It seems like they've dug in to identify where what this what this line item funds.
And when I look at evaluating the value of an event, I often try to look at what's the impact like how many people benefit from the event. Um, and what is the cost of that benefit? And so when I see parades, I see the attendance thousands, right?
Like the lining the streets. It's it's a big impact. Um, then I look at other types of events. I know, you know, a little little money towards the scout breakfast was mentioned. Um, but what I didn't hear mentioned was, um, I guess what is the cost of the programming for the Ruth Gordon Amphitheater?
Through you, madam, Madam Chairwoman, um, I believe that's in the $15,000 range, counselor. Okay. Um, so I've attended those events um quite often. Um, uh, I I think it's based upon my track record through the Walston Hill Neighborhood Association, then being a founder of Porchfest and running that for the past year, past 10 years.
Um, it probably doesn't require any explanation as to my appreciation for community building and live music and events. Uh, surely I I value those things. In fact, a lot of the work I've done as a volunteer um shows that and hope I wouldn't have to explain that much more.
Um but Ruth Gooden Amphitheater, I guess if we're looking at doing changes to the budget, I would say the the crowd varies between 200 to 400, maybe 500 um per instance. Many of them are the same each week.
So, it's not like we're attracting 500 people and then 500 different people and then 500 different people. Um, and then I look at the cost of that programming at 15,000. Um, I think back so, you know, I've been running Porchfest for the past 10 years.
We attract about 20,000 25,000 people to that event across three different neighborhoods. It is completely self-funded. We don't get a penny from the city to do that. We hustle. We sell shirts. Um, when it comes to Walston Hill Neighborhood Association, we get on our events, we get I think our biggest event, we got about 400 people.
We do the concert series similar to the Ruth Gordon. Um, that's when we had the Gypsy Months one time, we had over 400 people. Um, and but we generally get about 150 to 300. It's it's open to the entire city.
It's not just Wall Hill. Um, and that organization was started by me and my wife. Uh, and we self-funded that organization to the tune of $5,000 for the first two years, which I've never been paid for.
And I've volunteered all of my time and talents into community organizing and community building to build that organization that really funds itself. Each year, we throw uh four separate concerts with two different performances and food vending.
Uh, and it's all paid for by selling shirts, asking for donation, hustling, and in some cases, um, some of my own investments. And not a single volunteer that I have working with me gets paid. And likewise with Porchfest, not a single volunteer gets paid, and we put in months of time on that.
Um, we do go for grants. The Mass Cultural Commission can give you a grant. We do get donations. We We have a couple of folks who throw us a few hundred dollars. one person has been throwing us $1,000 every year and that's cuz he's one of the volunteers.
Uh him and his family really appreciate what it does. Um so when I compare and contrast what Porchfest costs the city which is aside from some police going around the neighborhoods, it's next to nothing.
Uh and then what Saturdays in the park, which runs for four weeks in September, uh cost the city nothing. Um and it's all self-funded. I wonder to what extent some of these other things can also be self-supporting and find sponsors and so forth.
So I guess I'm I'm curious why we didn't look at that particular expenditure and the number of people it serves, but we looked at parades and the number you see where I'm going. So I guess I'd love to hear a little bit more on the motion from my colleagues on that.
I'm I'm going to take some privilege um because I too love porch vest. I I agree with council that you know communitydriven events um have a different vibe and a different feel to them. I did ask um madame auditor had run a a list of expenditures out of this account and $75,000 this year went to the the uh Quinsey Foundation.
Um, so I agree with councelor McKe that we need to get a better understanding of what that is. A 501c4 is not a charitable organization. It is a nonprofit but not a charitable organization. Um, and there was some other things.
I mean, there's a lot of really good that the Salvation Army and Dove and Interfaith, they all receive donations um from this line, Quincsey Pride. So, you know, we don't we don't want to impact any of those.
Um, but there's one like the Terrell room state of the city in March, but the state of the city thing was in February. So, I don't know if that's mislabeled. No, that's just the the bill. And there actually that's not that was not actually the Terrell Room.
That was at Quinsey High School. The Terrell Room was is the is the in incorporated company that provided the catering for it for for the state of the city. Okay. and then the billing was later. Okay.
So, um you know, again, the $75,000 to to um the Quinsey Foundation, I couldn't find any information on that as well, and I agree with Council McKe that perhaps it might be a better conversation for oversight, but it would seem to me that that alone could absorb the $50,000 um proposed cut that Council Yan has made.
But that's that's where I'll leave it. Um, thank you, Madam Chair. Um, just to elaborate a little bit on the the celebration fund. It's been um it's been something the the residents of the city, the citizens, I really like a lot of these parades and um the different things that we've talked about Thanksgiving weekend.
Um, you know, just just looking back at the Ruth Gordon Amphitheater that um um Mr. um Hubi has talked about, Council Hubie, um you know, Sarah Sarah um Ter uh Collard, she's reached out to me a few times um about this being in the budget.
Um Studio 2, which is the uh Beatles tribute band, they they had over a thousand people As a matter of fact, councelor Yuan, I don't know how many times I saw you this summer there. We we ran into each other about 10 times.
I I was there a lot. Um all all I ask basically is um a lot of these different um celebrations are are are items that people really enjoy. if you could through through you, Madam Chair, to council, would you be willing to cut it in half to $25,000 cut um instead of a $50,000 cut?
And I hear you councelor Dola and councelor Huby and I enjoying the loose Gordon the uh theater the performance and the porch fest and and that's why I suggest like maybe volunteers doing the work and like you said sell t-shirt and um use all different ways to um to help cover the cost.
So that's why I suggest that even for the parade maybe people can donate money to make the floats instead of from the budget. That's that's all I'm I'm thinking the parade or the celebrations and if they feel like oh I can chip in some money to make a float they probably will be more more enjoying because they actively take part in the the parade.
So that's and and for this parade it's not just my opinions I heard from resident I I remember even the last last the counelor at a large candidate Andrew fan when he gave the public comment he also mentioned how many parade we we need when we have such a huge depth I'm not cutting the parade I'm just saying maybe we can cut in some cost through creative means.
So uh so council yen council Dana asked a very specific question if you would be willing to modify your your um your cut to 25,000. It sounds like we see behind you accept. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. So okay.
So I make a motion to cut this item cut 25,000. So down to down to 275. Okay. Councelor, um, Ryan, I'll let I'll let you go last. Okay. I just What's that? Go ahead, Council Ryan. Okay. Through you, Madam Chair.
Um, considering that the Ruth Gordon Amphitheater almost got filled with dirt, I don't think I would want to eliminate any funds going to that program. Um, they do get donations. It's not a lot, but maybe we could pro promote it a little bit differently or just put a little bit more effort into getting the word out.
I think all of these events are very worthwhile because it brings together the community. So instead of reducing the funding, we could actually move it to oversight to see if there is some way that we could possibly streamline it all or go over all of the details of where the funding is going.
Well, we've got to pass this budget tonight. So I I think that that might be a future goal. Um but and and ultimately at the end of the day, this is the mayor's budget. So, if he if he if by reducing this $25,000, I know the Ruth Gordon Amphitheater reached out, I think, to all of us and said that they had been um you know, committed $15,000 had been committed.
They do an awful lot with that small amount of money. Um so, my hope would be that, you know, we wouldn't we wouldn't be funding the Quinsey Foundation and cutting the Ruth Gordon, but ultimately that's the mayor's decision to do so.
So, Council Mahoney, I'm sorry. Did did you want to speak? Yeah, I did. Hang on. Go right ahead. I missed the whole conversation about the the Quinsey Foundation because I had to step out for a second and I understand where Council's coming from, but I don't think we're really talking about parades.
I think we're talking about understanding the foundation and I know you want to go into oversight to do that. I just I do feel like we So, is it a cut $25,000? We're down to 25. Yes. So that that's all I want to say is that I think without knowing and with the research that was done I just I was just confused by the 501c3 501c4 whatever we're not sure what it is and we don't know where it's coming from.
We do have to have some understanding on that but also I just wanted to make a note that and I do this for every budget is I wasn't really planning I didn't really look at the the um this budget that closely because I don't usually look at this one this closely but when I averaged out the six years it's 244.
So over the last six years, we paid 240. But to be fair, I was asking Chris also, I think we increased the amount a couple years ago. So I think I'm okay with the $25,000 cut. I think that won't be that bad.
But I do know that the events that we do have are really important to our families and but there was a $75,000. I I just don't understand what that is. So So for paying for our parades out of the out of this money, I'm not sure why we're transferring money to another 501c3, whatever it is.
51c4. Correct me if I'm wrong, Mr. Walker, but isn't the parades coming out of the Quincsey 400 line, as did the concerts last year? No, the parades. Okay, hang on. Hang on. Hang on, hang on. 75,000 this year to the foundation is forward the Christmas parade.
So, in the detail, um that's where that that money goes. Oh, okay. Okay. Um Okay. So, why do we pay it out? I just guess I'm confused. Why are we paying any money out of a celebration account? Why wouldn't you just pay the detail out of the celebration account?
I think from year to year that that all it has alternated. There have been some direct payments. I think historically um this has been the committee and the group that has operated and funded the the Christmas parade.
Um and that's where the money has has gone to. I think the Quinsey Foundation also did something with co too, didn't they? Yes. Okay. So, I guess my hesitation here is I never knew money was coming out of the celebration account going into a 501c4.
And when we're saying these are all for parades and everything else, and that might be for it, but 501c4 is raising money for the same thing, paying things out, I wouldn't think that you would be funding that separately.
That's the hiccup I'm having because, you know, you do you do a lot of great things with the the the celebrations account and I'm not against all that, but paying out to a nonprofit in that way like you do with the Boy Scouts and that's being paid for from the Celebrations account.
That's not going into any separate. The Boy Scouts would be also considered maybe a nonprofit. Why aren't you giving them the money to have their own party? But that's not really what you do. You have the party for them.
So I'm a little And then you know um Quincy Pride is a 501c3 three you know do we direct money directly to them? I don't we do you do you we get a clarify that we get a donation um every year traditionally 2500.
This year that amount is 5,000 um because we did have some of our usual sponsors um that were not able to contribute this year and the mayor's office was kind enough to double their contribution. But that's a donation and you're actually a recognized 51c3.
So I'm bringing that up just because we're recognizing you as a 501c3 and you couldn't take a donation if you weren't one. This is a 501c4 which is community events but it can't be found anywhere. I think the big problem is nobody understands what the Quinsey Foundation is and what it's being used for.
It's morphed into many different things and I think that's probably the problem because as I was sitting next to Chris I was asking him that. But I I think without knowing what that is and without seeing it, that's where we get complicit in not understanding that and not being having a clear explanation of it.
If it's registered as a 51c4, is it registered as a 51c? He believes it is, but it sounds like we haven't been able to find it. I haven't looked, so I can't say I have been able to find it, but that's all I wanted to say.
Okay. So, we do have a motion. Oh, councel Huby, we're cutting. Yeah. on the motion and I'll it's just like 30 seconds more. Um just to be clear, I'm not in favor of cutting into the celebrations uh fund.
Uh I think my time in community building in the city speaks for itself um with the reasons why I would be against doing so. It's an intangible and when you experience running something like this firsthand, it's it makes a difference and it's why I keep coming every year.
I say I'm never doing this again and then of course it happens and I'm like all right, I'll do it again. Um, so just to be clear, I'm not a fan of cutting, but I was more interested in our methodology and our metrics based, our numbers based analysis and why we talked about parades, but didn't talk about something that draws much fewer people that cost what seems to be a lot more.
Um, quite frankly, also when I found out about the funding, I was like, wait, all I had to do is come down to city hall and get five grand, and I I don't have a dining room full of t-shirts that I'm trying to sell.
I mean, me, my wife, and I like, we drive around the city delivering t-shirts for five months just to pay for Porchfest. So, just on an equitable manner, right? We've been hustling for 15 years without a penny, but these other events, you know, just get a good amount of funding because they asked.
Maybe I should have just asked. So, um, but I'm not I'm I'm not going to I don't want to cut into this. I I very much appreciate all the events that are happening. There's an intangible, uh, effect. I don't know how you put a price on it.
So that's it on the motion. Councel Jacobs. Yeah. I also won't be voting in favor of reducing anything from this budget, but I do have one request. We need more childfriendly things. I have little kids and you know, I don't go to that silly thing up at the thing over there cuz there's alcohol there and I don't want my kids around it.
And I asked the city hall if we could maybe you know anyone's listen you know some childhood events that are alcohol-f free that would be helpful and I think we could use that. Okay. Council McGee did you have more?
Well, I also think that, you know, communities events are super important and of course love the Ruth Gordon Amphitheater, but um I do see I've looked at the celebrations budget for the last several years and I do think there's there's money that could go.
Um there's there's rather a significant amount of money sometimes that goes to um events like the I I don't I don't I think the state of the city address could be very successful without like the $16,000 that was charged for catering.
Um, and I know like in uh in 2024 the the inauguration of the uh mayor and council um costs like $20,000 at Granite Links. Um our cake downstairs in the basement was was less, which is good. Um but I think that there's money I I'm going to be supportive of this cut.
I know we can't know exactly where uh the mayor will take the money from, but I think the amount of money that goes to things like Ruth Gordon, that goes to Pride, that goes to I mean um like the Maria Dross counseling services there, these are actually smaller amounts, but things that I think things like the inauguration um for 20,000 and the state of the city address for 16,000 and um some of the funding that goes to um well, let's see, this is 2025 um $45,000 to to the Quincy Chamber of Commerce for um holiday lights in Marina Bay.
Um these are things I don't think we need to be spending this amount of money, so I'm going to support this this cut. Okay. I'd like to take a roll call vote if we're all set. Okay. Council Ash, no. Council Debona, no.
Council Hubley, no. Council Jacobs, no. Council Mahoney, yes. Council McKe, yes. Council Ryan, yes. Council Yuan, yes. Chairman Riley, yes. Passes. Okay. Passed. 54. Motion to motion to approve the celebrations budget as amended from councelor Debana.
Any discussion on the motion? All those in favor? I All righty. I think I think uh Council Mahoney is up next with the um council budget. Ready? Okay. Sorry. Um so this is the city council budget and um the first line obviously is all the counselors we have.
The second line is city order and she did come to me and ask me she's she asked me to bring it down to her original salary of 144 326 because all of the department heads I want to make sure I get this right.
We're not taking the percentage range. Correct Susan? That's correct. And then you did ask me though to make sure we maintained I'm sure I'm going to apologize because I didn't write it down. Is it was it premium pay or longevity that we needed to increase?
Um, I would prefer if you made a cut of $8,000. That would leave money left over in my line that we can use for the longevity because there has been an increase in the longevity tables for fiscal 27. So, if I make a cut for 8,000 for 510 510003, it will leave you enough money for your longevity.
Correct. Yes, it will. Thank you. So, I'd like to make a cut for $8,000 for 51003. Okay. Motion to um amend that line item. Any discussion on the motion? Council Devana. So through you to the madam auditor.
Are you okay with that cut? Yes, I am councelor. Okay. All right. Okay. Thank you. Yes. Thank you. Okay. So I Susan asked me to make that cut. I wasn't I wasn't making that just to be mean. I just I just want to let you know that Susan called me and asked me to make that cut.
Um the remainder the remainder in the balance is the um the employees that work for the city council, admin to the council, admin to the assistant clerk of committees, longevity clerk premium pay for a total of um well less than 8,000.
So um 8,5427. Then we have um the what's really the the amount that's follows is repair maintenance professional tech that's in the um in the office itself and then communications at large is $1,000 and communication by wards are $5,000.
Um I have never used my communications at large but I know before I would cut that that's something that usually gets transferred forward counselors in case they go over. Correct. So, so I would say that we will leave that there and just in case any board counselors because usually at the end of the year if we do have to, we will transfer that in.
And then we have office supplies and conferences um bringing a total of $88,737. And okay, so we just need to vote on the um cut. Just all those in favor? I any opposed? Okay. And then um don't know if anybody has any other questions.
Any any other questions on the budget? A motion to approve as amended. Councelor De Bono. All those in favor? I. None opposed. I think that does it. Oh, motion to Oh, well, no, we have to go into full counsel, right?
Yes. So, adjourn. Ajourn. I'll join the finance committee meeting and we will go into our full counsel. Mhm. We're going to bring the council meeting back in order. It's about 12:27. So, madam clerk, could you read the numbers for number one, 2026 073 in appropriation fiscal 2027 general fund budget.
So this is the general fund budget that we just did and we're just looking for a vote as amended to pass. We need a passage and it needs a second. Motion to approve as amended. Motion to approve as amended.
Second by council Jacobs. What's that? Do you want the total? Do we have the totals? Okay. Is this is this full budget? This is the general. This is the general budget. If we have do you have the numbers?
Okay. The budget um the proposed budget came in at 491,849702. There were two amendments. One to the interest on notes and then also for the downtown offset um which brought the total down to 490 million 132 78217.
There were further cuts made to various lines totaling 1,668176 bringing the total revised budget for fiscal 2027 to 48846460617. Okay. So the amended budget is 4884646067. Correct. Okay. Motion by Councelor Riley, seconded by Council Jacobs, and we'll need a roll call vote on that.
On the motion? Yep. On the motion. Um, thank you. Thank you. Sorry. Thank you, Madam President. Just to elaborate a little bit on the entire budget process. Uh, I want to thank fellow counselors for going through this.
It's It's a long one. This was a marathon. We had three of them go into the next day, including 12:30 a.m. right now. We had a 1:00 and we had another 12:30. Uh I want to thank all the counselors for coming out.
It's it's it's a long process. Um this was the most longest ones we've ever done. Um I want to thank some of the counselors for um keeping in the budget the DEI community liaison which we discussed tonight.
I want to thank you uh for this um CPC which is a community preservation committee director. Thank you for leaving that in the budget. um and and some of the other cuts on compromising on lowering some of the cuts.
So, I I want to thank the council for for actually working together on trying to um do that. Um as I was part of some cuts um particularly the one that stood out to me to be the one that I did not support was the emergency management position um in some of the items in that particular budget.
Um, and however, um, I want to thank the council for fully budgeting, um, the police department, the fire department, and the education in the schools, those three big threes. Thank you for um, fully funding those three budgets because they're very important to our city.
Um, where we agreed and disagreed on certain votes, I don't think anybody up here voted 100% with each other, which was good. Um, some people voted for things, some people voted for cuts, some people didn't, which was great.
That's what the council's all about. Overall, uh, I just want to thank you for the process. Um, it's been a long one. We're still here going at 12:30 a.m. Know if anybody's watching. probably get a couple text messages and Facebook things, but um I just want to thank everybody for this process and uh um I hope um we look forward to um July 1st when this new new budget gets into into into consideration.
I also want to thank Mr. Chris Walker that sat through a lot of these um Jen Manning, Nikki Chris, um Susan Susan O' Conor here that have been through this. Um Jim Timonss is out there still. He's out there tonight.
a lot of the department heads that have been here for quite a while. Thank you for everything. Um, oh, and Scott Jackson, he's still here tonight from Quincy Sun. Thank you. Um, but but overall, thank you for the process and uh I I'm going to be supporting this.
Thank you. Yes. Council Ash, yes. Council Debana, yes. Council Hubley, yes. Council Jacobs, yes. Council McKe, yes. Council Riley, yes. Council Ryan, yes. Council Yuan, yes. President Mahoney, yes. Nine members.
Can we go on to item number two, please? 2026 074 and appropriation fiscal 2027 sewer enterprise budget. Do you have amount for that? The amount of the fiscal 27 sore enterprise budget 31 million 68520276.
Do we have a motion? Make a motion. Make a motion. Okay, we have a motion. Do we have a second? Second by coun. Motion by councelor Jacobs. Second by councelor Ash. Um to pass the sore enterprise budget for 3168520276.
Could we please call ro? Councelor Ash. Yes. Council Dona. Yes. Council Hubley. Yes. Council Jacobs. Yes. Council McKe. Yes. Councelor Riley. Yes. Council Ryan. Yes. Council UN. Yes. President Mahoney.
Yes. Nine members. Okay. Okay. Um and then we have um oh sorry number three 26075 and appropriation fiscal 2027 water enterprise budget. If we could have a number the proposed 2027 water enterprise budget was originally 27654975.72.
There was a cut of $74,000 bringing the total down to 27,580 975.72. Do we have a motion? Motion to approve. Motion approved by councelor Riley, seconded by councelor Jacobs. Roll call vote. Councelor Ash, yes.
Council Dono, yes. Council Hubley, yes. Council Jacobs, yes. Council McKe, yes. Councilor Riley, yes. Councilor Ryan, yes. Council, yes. President Mahoney. Yes. Nine members. Next. Number four. 2026 087.
Utility grant a location Mass electric Verizon 10 independent ass. Oh, sorry. Council. Thank you, Madam President. Took a little nap. Sorry. This is a um utility grant location Mass electric Verizon 10 Independence A.
Um there was a public hearing held on this um earlier this season. Um it is a new uh construction build at 10 Independence A and um I was waiting on some clearance from the traffic department to bring this out of committee.
I was not able to do that on Monday. I did get confirmation um since then that this can be voted on um and moved. So it does it did receive a positive recommendation after public utility um committee.
So, I'm asking for a vote on order number 2026-087. Okay. Sorry, I took another break. Second. Need a second. Can I have a roll call vote? Council Ash. Council Debana? Yes. Council Hubley? Yes. Council Jacobs?
Yes. Council McKe? Yes. Council Riley? Yes. Council Ryan? Yes. Council Yuen? Yes. President Mahoney? Yes. Nine members. Next is number five, 2025 139, an appropriation amendment to 3,386 510 for the community preservation accounts.
I can't remember what that was. All the correction. Yes. Okay. Just a motion to motion for motion approved for council Riley, seconded by councelor Deona. Can we have a roll call vote? Councelor Rash.
Yes. Council Deon. Council Hubley. Yes. Council Jacobs. Yes. Council McKe. Yes. Council Riley. Yes. Council Ryan. Yes. Council UN. Yes. President Mahoney. Yes. Nine members. Next is number six. 202694.
An appropriation for $97,63 to PAX Department Personal Services from Community Preservation Fund Administration. Motion to approve. That's for the administrator. Motion to approve by councelor Riley, seconded by council Jacobs.
Roll call vote, please. Councelor Ash. Council Dona. Yes. Council Hubley. Council Jacobs. Yes. Council McKe. Yes. Council Riley. Yes. Council Ryan. Yes. Councilw. Yes. President Mahoney. Yes. And members.
Right. Before we go on, um, we're going to talk about the upcoming meetings, but I'm going to take a point of privilege to be able to make a statement tonight. Not. Um, I want to address some comments that were made by the mayor regarding the Eastern Nazarene College vote.
It's timely and I feel like I need to do this tonight. The mayor stated the vote was orchestrated by me. I have to be honest, I found that statement really insulting, not to me, but to every member of this council.
The suggestion that six elective counselors cannot think for themselves, review information, ask questions, and independently reach the same conclusion is offensive to this body and to the residents who elected us.
I am one vote. One, I do not hire people. I do not award contracts. I do not grant tax incentives. I do not control appointments. I do not have the ability to reward people for agreeing with me or punish them for disagreeing with me.
What I do have is a responsibility to ask questions and I make no apology for doing exactly that. For months, this council has been asking for information. We asked for comprehensive reviews of the city debt.
We asked for reviews of the city-owned real estate. We asked for a capital plan. We asked for transparency. Those requests were not political. They were our job. As councilors, we have a responsibility to understand the risks before asking taxpayers to assume the additional debt.
We also made it clear that if the city pursued this acquisition, we wanted additional property sold, not simply to offset the purchase price, but to create a meaningful financial cushion should projected revenues or property sales fail to materialize.
These concerns were raised. Those those concerns were raised. Those concerns were communicated. Those recommend recommendations were largely ignored. At the same time, the numbers we are seeing continue to grow.
Last November, the city's debt was reported at approximately $1.6 billion. By April, we had increased that to $1.8 billion. And by June, councilors were being told the number was $2 billion. Those are not my numbers.
Those are the city numbers. Those figures are contained in publicly available reports available for everyone to review. When debt grows by hundreds of millions of dollars in a matter of months, asking questions is not obstruction.
It is oversight. What I find most troubling is that most of the information counselors ultimately relied on to make the information we had to find ourselves. We requested it. We waited for it. We asked for it again.
And then we spent days reviewing debt reports, financial statements, capital plans, public records because the answers we requested were either incomplete, delayed, or provided at the last minute. If this was truly a once- ina-lifetime generation opportunity, then why were the councils forced to do all that work themselves?
Why were we still looking for answers days before the vote? Why were legitimate concerns about debt and financial risks treated as obstacles instead of responsibilities? And if the council was orchestration, if there was an orchestration taking place, it certainly was not coming from this council.
This council asked questions. This council requested information. This council did its homework. This council exercised independent judgment. This is exactly what people elected us to do. I also want to address something.
There seems to be a belief that because I disagree with the mayor, somehow I hate him. I do not. That has never been the case. I might disagree with him, but I do not hate him and I never have hated the mayor.
We asked for a capital plan. I'm sorry. Over the over the years, I supported many initiatives that this administration for this administration when I believed that there was the best interest of the city.
I think you can agree with that, Mr. Walker. I have said yes many times up here. But respect is built on trust, and trust requires honesty. When counselors ask legitimate questions and are accused of obstructing progress, that erodess trust.
When information is repeatedly requested and arrives late, trust erodess. When concerns are dismissed instead of addressed, trust erodess. And when six independently elected counselors are accused of being orchestrated because they reached a conclusion that the administration didn't like, trust erodess.
The administration is entitled to disagree with the outcome. What it's not entitled to do is to question the independence or integrity of a council just because the result wasn't what they wanted. The reality is much simpler.
Six counselors reviewed the information. Six counselors reviewed the risks. Six counselors reached the same conclusion. That's not an orchestration. That's a representation. Responsible people can disagree about the out outcome of a vote, but nobody should question the motive.
The motive was simple. Protect the taxpayers. Demand transparency. Ask the questions that are needed to be asked and do the job that you were elected to do. Every counselor who voted Monday night owns that vote and I respect that.
I think the mayor should too. Thank you. So now on upcoming meetings we have Monday, June 22nd starting at 6:00 there'll be an oversight meeting 6:45 rules committee 7 o'clock special council meeting and 7:05 ordinance meeting.