Name: Quincy City Council meeting, May 18, 2026
Start: 2026-05-18
Location: City of Quincy

City Council

Mon, May 18, 2026

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Meeting summaryAI-generated

Quincy City Council — May 18, 2026

This was a busy session combining two public hearings on utility matters, an Ordinance Committee meeting focused on the ongoing city councilor and mayoral pay raise controversy, and a regular City Council meeting. The evening was notably contentious, particularly during the salary discussion with City Solicitor James Timmons and during the Eastern Nazarene College legal update.

Public Hearings: Utility Grants of Location — 46–50 Winter Street (Orders 2026-067 and 2026-068)

Two brief public hearings were held at 6:30 p.m. on utility grants of location for National Grid (Mass Electric) and Verizon at 46–50 Winter Street — one for a pole move, one for a pole installation. No members of the public spoke at either hearing. Both hearings closed at 6:31 p.m. Later in the regular meeting, Councillor Riley moved a positive recommendation on both; seconded, passed unanimously by voice vote.

Ordinance Committee: Councillor and Mayoral Pay Raises — Discussion and Salary Deferrals

Council President Mahoney, chairing the Ordinance Committee, opened with a summary of the raise controversy: in June 2024, the prior council unanimously approved a 79% raise for Mayor Koch (to $285,000) and a 50% raise for councillors (to $44,500), effective January 1, 2025. After public backlash and contact from the State Ethics Commission regarding conflict-of-interest concerns, the prior council and mayor voluntarily deferred the raises rather than repealing them. The raises remain on the books. The current council took office already receiving the raise that many had campaigned against, and state conflict-of-interest law prevents this council from repealing their own salaries by ordinance during this term — though individual councillors may voluntarily defer their pay via letter.

Councillors reported their individual approaches as follows:

Councillor Ryan wrote a letter on March 30th deferring her salary to the prior rate of $29,700, though she could not make it retroactive. She has made nonprofit donations and pledged to disclose recipients later this year.

Councillor Jacobs deferred his raise in mid-April and donated $3,000 to the Quincy Band Boosters — slightly more than the raise amount he had already received.

Councillor McKee clarified that councillors were simply handed paperwork during onboarding with no option to decline. She believes the raises were overdue but flawed in process, and has donated the net difference (after taxes and union contributions) to Interfaith Social Services, DOVE, and the Quincy Public Schools.

Councillor Mahoney deferred her salary and has donated to community services. She emphasized the need for a data-driven, transparent process to determine appropriate compensation going forward.

Councillor Ash declined to detail specific donations, saying he supports nonprofits continuously before, during, and after office and considered a public accounting "juvenile."

Councillor Hubley acknowledged campaigning on the issue, agreed the process lacked public input, and said he supports a thorough public discussion of compensation backed by data.

Councillor Yuan donated $1,000 each to three public elementary schools (Francis Parker, Snug Harbor, and Lincoln-Hancock) in the first quarter and plans to continue quarterly donations to those schools.

Councillor DiBona noted his 11 years on the council and said he has donated thousands annually to Quincy schools, youth sports, and veterans groups throughout his tenure and will continue doing so.

Exchange with City Solicitor Timmons: Solicitor Timmons was asked to address pension implications of the deferrals. He explained that pensions are calculated based on what employees are actually paid, not what an ordinance authorizes — so a voluntary deferral reduces the pension basis. When Councillor McKee asked for this in writing, Timmons pushed back, saying he had given the answer publicly on the record. Council President Mahoney intervened, arguing it is entirely reasonable to request legal opinions in writing and that the solicitor's tone toward Councillor McKee was inappropriate. Timmons ultimately agreed to provide a written summary memo with prior exhibits.

Councillor Yuan raised a question from a resident citing MGL Chapter 43, Section 21, asking whether the raises were legally in effect since the deferral was voluntary. Timmons confirmed the raises are legally in effect and that some councillors who did not defer are receiving the full $44,500. He declined to answer the specific statutory question on the spot, saying he needed questions submitted in advance. He confirmed the mayor's legal salary is $285,000 under the ordinance, though he has deferred it.

Solicitor Timmons also warned the council that the word "repeal" in the draft ordinances is legally dangerous — repealing a salary ordinance could wipe out the entire salary line back to its original enactment, leaving elected officials with no pay. He recommended using language such as "delete" or "void" rather than "repeal," and offered to provide prior memos on the topic.

The committee agreed to reconvene on June 22nd for further discussion. Solicitor Timmons agreed to provide a written memo summarizing his legal positions.

Legal Update: Eastern Nazarene College Acquisition

Solicitor Timmons presented the background on the city's letter of intent (LOI) to purchase the Eastern Nazarene College (ENC) campus in Ward 5 for $21 million (the bond authorization order is for $22.5 million). Key points:

A prior private buyer (an ENC alumnus) had the campus under agreement for reportedly over $35 million, but the deal collapsed.

Mayor Koch developed a relationship with ENC's president and initiated negotiations. ENC's board of trustees, based out of state, is represented by a Boston law firm; local attorney Frank Marinelli of Braintree is involved.

The city cannot go directly to a purchase-and-sale agreement — it must first obtain City Council approval under MGL Chapter 40, Section 14 (acquisition of real property by municipalities).

ENC set firm deadlines because of significant financial pressure from carrying the vacant campus. The council must approve both the acquisition and the funding by June 15, 2026 (the council's last meeting before summer recess).

The city's assessed value of the ENC campus is $58 million; the city obtained a third-party appraisal to justify the lower purchase price to the Attorney General, who must approve any sale of major assets by a nonprofit.

Attorney Marinelli indicated that since the $21 million price has become public, other potential buyers have entered the queue.

A proposed closing date of July 10, 2026 follows AG review after council approval.

Discussion highlights:

Councillor Ryan asked for assessed values and carrying cost information; Timmons confirmed those are being compiled for the upcoming finance committee presentation.

Councillor Riley noted she received the LOI the day after the May 4th council meeting, not before, and called for a site visit and a comprehensive finance committee presentation. She offered to schedule a finance committee meeting for June 1st at 6 p.m. contingent on receiving materials by May 27th.

Councillor Jacobs expressed frustration at the lack of a concrete plan, specifically asking what existing city-owned properties the administration is prepared to sell to offset the acquisition cost. Timmons said those details would be presented at the finance committee hearing.

Councillor Hubley asked for information on 40B development implications and the Dover Amendment — what a private buyer could do with the land versus what the city could do — so that neighbors can understand the stakes of not purchasing.

Councillor DiBona spoke in favor of keeping an open mind, noting the property is assessed at $58 million and the city would be acquiring it at less than half that value. He identified flooding mitigation, public fields, a Wollaston Library branch, and Quincy College use of the gym as key community interests.

Councillor McKee raised concerns about the pace of information sharing, noting the LOI was dated in April but not distributed to councillors until the evening of the May 4th meeting.

Council President Mahoney said the administration's pattern of announcing things via press release before briefing the council is a problem, and noted that Moody's downgraded the city on May 5th — the day after the mayor presented the budget — with no communication to the council. She also expressed concern about the city's rising debt ($1.8 billion), the lack of a completed plan for the Monroe Building, and the need for measurable outcomes before committing to another major acquisition.

A finance committee meeting was scheduled for June 1st at 6 p.m. to receive the administration's comprehensive ENC presentation.

Order 2026-084: Amending Council Rules on Meeting and Special Meeting Notice

This order would update Council Rules 24 and 25 regarding notice requirements for regular and special meetings to reflect electronic delivery. No substantive discussion. Moved to the Rules Committee with direction to advertise.

Vote: Motion by Councillor McKee, seconded by Councillor Hubley. Passed unanimously by voice vote.

Order 2026-085: Requesting a Two-Year Capital Bonding Plan and Financial Projections (Sponsored by Councillors Yuan, Mahoney, Ryan, McKee, and Riley)

Councillor Yuan read the order into the record in full. It requests the administration provide, no later than June 15, the council and public with a comprehensive overview of all major projects anticipated to require bond authorizations over the next two fiscal years, including:

The House's Neck seawall project (costs, grants, bonding needs)

MSBA accelerated repair programs (school building repairs)

The DeLisa Early Learning Center renovation

The Monroe Building/performance center demolition and construction

The ENC acquisition and all associated post-acquisition costs

Any other major projects in the pipeline

Councillor Riley moved to amend to add the Department of Public Buildings alongside the Department of Public Works in two places where it was incorrectly listed. The order was also amended to change the presentation deadline from June 15 to June 1, and to refer the matter to the Finance Committee for the June 1st meeting alongside the ENC presentation.

Councillor DiBona characterized the order as "propaganda," drawing pushback from Councillor Ash and Council President Mahoney, who said the order is a reasonable request for a capital plan the city should already have.

Vote on amendment (refer to Finance, change date to June 1): Ash – Yes, DiBona – No, Hubley – Yes, Jacobs – Yes, McKee – Yes, Riley – Yes, Ryan – Yes, Yuan – Yes, Mahoney – Yes. (8–1)

Vote on main motion as amended: Ash – Yes, DiBona – No, Hubley – Yes, Jacobs – Yes, McKee – Yes, Riley – Yes, Ryan – Yes, Yuan – Yes, Mahoney – Yes. (8–1, DiBona dissenting)

Gift 2026-086: $1,000 from Quincy Police Patrol Officers Association to DARE

The Quincy Police Patrol Officers Association donated $1,000 to the Mayor Koch DARE program. The council voted to accept the gift and send a letter of thanks.

Vote: Motion by Councillor DiBona, seconded by Councillor Jacobs. Passed 9–0.

Residents' Open Forum Highlights

Several residents spoke on the pay raises and the ENC acquisition:

Hank Dondo was sharply critical of the council's handling of the Solicitor Timmons exchange, calling it "embarrassing" and threatening electoral consequences in 2027.

Gail Callahan (437 Quarry St.) praised councillors for disclosing their salary decisions and said she personally supports the raises for both the council and mayor, citing the demanding nature of the work. She also expressed strong support for purchasing ENC.

Jocelyn Sedney (85 Monroe Rd.) raised pointed questions about who will pay carrying costs at ENC from day one — utilities, maintenance, renovations — and warned the council to be honest with taxpayers about ongoing obligations beyond the purchase price.

Heather Dhoni (912 Southern Artery) questioned whether Corey Hills Golf Course would continue receiving water bill abatements at taxpayer expense, criticized below-market rents at the Monroe Building for well-connected private businesses, and proposed the city use Monroe space for a transparent, open-application co-working and nonprofit incubator pilot.

Sudi (922 C St.) expressed concern about deferred maintenance citywide and encouraged the council to keep asking hard questions, invoking a Native American principle of thinking seven generations ahead.

Helen Shriner (23 Copley St.), a 30-year abutter of ENC, expressed strong support for the acquisition, calling it a genuine "fire drill" opportunity not to be missed.

Kathleen Kyle (146 Franklin Ave., 54-year neighborhood resident) urged every councillor to vote yes, warning it would be the biggest mistake of their careers not to.

Zachary Christopher (67 Montclair Ave.) said he supports the council's raise, arguing low pay incentivizes only wealthy people to seek office. He also noted that the public meeting itself is recorded and constitutes a legal written record, pushing back on the request for written legal opinions.

Bill Eastwood raised concerns about the city's recent bond rating downgrade and the use of bond premium to offset debt interest costs in the budget, suggesting the actual budget is closer to $502 million when accounted for properly.

Kathy Throne (234 Everett St.) rebutted a prior speaker's claim that the last election was stolen, saying simply: "I lost. I accept it."

Memorial Remarks

Councillor Riley paid tribute to Quincy firefighter Neil Leonard, Ladder 5, who passed away May 12th after 32 years on the Quincy Fire Department and six years in the Army National Guard, from workplace-related cancer. The council extended condolences to his wife Barbara and children Nicole and Daniel.

Councillor Ash offered condolences to the family of Mary Perios, 85, a longtime Quincy Point resident who passed May 4th, shortly after her husband.

Key Takeaways

ENC acquisition is on a hard deadline: The council must vote to authorize the $22.5 million bond by June 15th. A Finance Committee meeting is now set for June 1st at 6 p.m. to receive the administration's full presentation. The city's assessed value of the campus is $58 million; the purchase price is $21 million.

Pay raise ordinances remain on the books: The 2024 raises are still legally in effect. Most councillors have voluntarily deferred their raises and donated the difference to nonprofits. The city solicitor has agreed to provide a written memo on the legal status of the deferrals and pension implications.

Council passed an 8–1 order demanding a two-year capital bonding plan from the administration, covering ENC, seawalls, school repairs, DeLisa, and the Monroe Building/performance center, to be presented at the June 1st Finance Committee meeting.

City solicitor warned against using the word "repeal" in salary ordinances, saying it could eliminate the entire salary line; he recommended alternative language and agreed to provide prior legal memos to councillors.

Moody's downgraded Quincy's bond rating on May 5th, the day after the mayor presented the budget, with no communication to the council — a point of significant frustration for Council President Mahoney and others as the city contemplates additional major borrowing.

AI-generated summary from voice-to-text transcript. Not the official record. Verify important details with the source documents linked above.

What happened at this meeting

Residents Open Forum and Public Comment P resident Mahoney

# Residents Open Forum and Public Comment Summary

During the May 18th, 2026 city council meeting, residents raised concerns across multiple issues. Hank Dondo criticized the council's responses to the city solicitor and handling of city matters, while Gail Callahan from Quarry Street noted that the ledger was informed of council raises before residents received direct notification. Regarding the Eastern Nazarene College property acquisition, Kathleen Kyle from 146 Franklin Avenue urged councillors to vote for funding the land purchase, emphasizing that it would enable 14 new homes for first-time homebuyers while preserving the arboretum and open space. Zachary Christopher from 67 Montlair Ave supported city ownership as a sound investment and community asset. Bill addressed grant funding mechanics, clarifying that grants function as tax rebates rather than free money, and raised concerns about the city's recent bond rating cut and its impact on overall debt burden.

L egal Update – Eastern Nazarene College

# Legal Update – Eastern Nazarene College Summary

The City Solicitor provided a legal update on Eastern Nazarene College's (ENC) proposed acquisition, explaining that Mayor Koch announced interest in purchasing the 225-acre Ward 5 property in February following a failed prior development deal, and that a letter of intent was developed with a purchase price of $21 million with critical deadlines set by ENC due to their financial pressures. Councillor Yuan and others raised concerns about the late distribution of the letter of intent (received the evening of May 4th) and requested comprehensive information sharing, while Councillor Riley questioned the assessed property value ($58 million according to Quincy assessments) and carrying costs. The administration indicated that a third-party appraisal has been completed for Attorney General review, with a comprehensive proposal to be presented by May 27th, and noted that council approval requires a 2/3 vote with Chapter 40 Section 14 approval required by June 15th before an expected July 10th closing. Multiple council members, including Councillor Hubley, requested detailed information on financing, zoning implications including 40B and Dover Amendment considerations, flood plain issues, and comparisons to alternative development scenarios before the finance committee meeting on June 1st.

2026-084 – Order – Amending Council Rules Twenty-Four Council Meeting & President Mahoney Twenty-Five Special Meetings – Notice

# Summary: Order 2026-084 – Amending Council Rules

Councillor presented Order 2026-084 to amend council rules regarding electronic delivery of meeting notices and special meeting documentation, which was referred to the rules committee for review and advertisement. During related discussions on Item 2026-086 concerning salary deferrals and ordinance amendments, City Solicitor Timmons provided legal guidance on the distinction between repealing salary ordinances versus deferring salary and its implications for retirement board appeals. Council President Mahoney requested that Timmons provide written documentation of his legal opinion rather than relying solely on public meeting statements, emphasizing the importance of formal written guidance for legal matters. Councillor Riley and Mahoney also raised concerns about procedural timing regarding document distribution to council members before meetings to allow adequate review. A motion by Councillor McGee, seconded by Councillor Hubley, passed unanimously with no questions raised.

2026-085 – Order – Requesting the Administration to Provide a Two-Fiscal- Councillor Yuan Year Capital Bonding Plan and Financial Projections for Major Councillor Mahoney Projects Councillor Ryan Councillor McKee C ouncillor Riley

# Summary of Order 2026-085

Councillor Yuan introduced Order 2026-085, requesting the administration provide a two-fiscal-year capital bonding plan and financial projections for major projects by June 1st—rather than the original June 15th date—to allow adequate council and resident review before decisions on the Eastern Nazarene College acquisition and other major projects. The Council discussed significant concerns about the city's approximately $1.8 billion debt and residents' increasing property tax burdens, with members questioning whether the city could afford major capital projects without comprehensive financial analysis. After addressing a drafting error regarding the Department of Public Buildings, Councillor McKe moved to pass the order as amended, and the Council voted to refer the matter to the Finance Committee meeting on June 1st, where the administration's capital plan presentation would be reviewed alongside the ENC proposal in a unified discussion of the city's financial priorities.

2026-086 – Gift – $1,000.00 from Quincy Police Patrol Officers Association to Mayor Koch D.A.R.E.

The council considered a $1,000 gift from the Quincy Police Patrol Officers Association to Mayor Koch for the D.A.R.E. program. Councillor Dabona made the motion to approve, seconded by Councillor Jacobs, with a letter of thanks to be sent. The motion passed unanimously by roll call vote.

Agenda items (5)

Procedural (2)

1ProceduralResidents Open Forum and Public Comment P resident Mahoney

Residents will have the opportunity to speak during open public comment, with President Mahoney presiding.

What happened

2ProceduralL egal Update – Eastern Nazarene College

City officials will provide a legal update regarding matters involving Eastern Nazarene College.

What happened

Order

3Order2026-084 – Order – Amending Council Rules Twenty-Four Council Meeting & President Mahoney Twenty-Five Special Meetings – Notice

The city is proposing changes to the Council Rules regarding how many council meetings can be held and how special meetings should be announced.

What happened

4Order2026-085 – Order – Requesting the Administration to Provide a Two-Fiscal- Councillor Yuan Year Capital Bonding Plan and Financial Projections for Major Councillor Mahoney Projects Councillor Ryan Councillor McKee C ouncillor Riley

Several councillors are requesting that the city administration prepare a two-year financial plan showing how much money will be needed for major capital projects and the city's overall financial outlook.

What happened

Gift

5Gift2026-086 – Gift – $1,000.00 from Quincy Police Patrol Officers Association to Mayor Koch D.A.R.E.

The Quincy Police Patrol Officers Association is donating $1,000 to the Mayor's D.A.R.E. program (a substance abuse prevention program).

What happened

Additional votes recorded in minutes

Refer council order 2026-084 (amending council rules) to rules committee and advertise

aye 1

voice voteaye

Amendment to order 2026-085 - refer to finance committee for June 1st meeting (instead of passing tonight as presented)

aye 8 · nay 1

Anne Mahoneyaye

David Jacobsaye

Deborah Rileyaye

Maggie McKeeaye

Noel DiBonanay

Richard Ashaye

Virginia Ryanaye

Walter Hubleyaye

Ziqiang Yuanaye

Approve order 2026-085 requesting two fiscal year capital bonding plan and financial projections, as amended, referred to finance committee

aye 8 · nay 1

Anne Mahoneyaye

David Jacobsaye

Deborah Rileyaye

Maggie McKeeaye

Noel DiBonanay

Richard Ashaye

Virginia Ryanaye

Walter Hubleyaye

Ziqiang Yuanaye

Approve gift of $1,000 from Quincy Police Patrol Officers Association to DIY

aye 9

Anne Mahoneyaye

David Jacobsaye

Deborah Rileyaye

Maggie McKeeaye

Noel DiBonaaye

Richard Ashaye

Virginia Ryanaye

Walter Hubleyaye

Ziqiang Yuanaye

Approve public hearing recommendations for 2026-067 and 2026-068 (utility grant of location Mass Electric/Verizon, 46-50 Winter Street)

aye 1

voice voteaye

Motion to adjourn

aye 1

voice voteaye

Verbatim transcript available

560 transcript segments indexed

Good evening. I'd like to call the Monday, May 18th, 6:30 p.m. public hearing to to um order. This uh council order is 2026-067 utility grant of location mass electric Verizon 46 to50 Winter Street. Uh once again 2026-067 utility grant of location Mass electric and Verizon 46 to 50 Winter Street.

Uh this is for a poll move. Um at this point I would like to ask anyone wishing to speak in favor or opposition to come to the podium. State your name and address at um if you do not wish to speak but would like your support or opposition recorded, please sign in on the sheet at the table in the back of the chamber.

Seeing no further public comment, I will close this public hearing at 6:31 p.m. Good evening. I would like to call the to order the Monday, May 18th, 6:30 p.m. public hearing on council order 2026-068 uh utility grant of location Mass Electric and Verizon 46 to 50 Winter Street.

This is for the pole installation. 46 to 50 Winter Street pole installation. Uh at this point, I would like to ask anyone wishing to speak in favor or opposition uh to come to the podium, state your name and address.

If you do not wish to speak, but would like your support or opposition recorded, please sign in on the sheet at the table in the back of the chamber. Seeing no further public comment, I will close this public hearing at 6:31.

Good evening everyone and welcome to the um ordinance committee for May 18th. Um I will read into the record the open meeting law. Pursuant to the open meeting law, any person may make an audio or video recording of this public meeting or may transmit the meeting through any medium.

Attendees are therefore advised that such recordings or transmissions are being made, whether perceived or unpersceived, by those present, and are deemed acknowledged and permissible. Um, Madam Clerk, would you please call the role?

Council Ash, Council Debon, Council Hub, Council Jacobs, present. Council Mahoney, Council Riley, present. Council Ryan, present. Council Yuan, present. Okay, thank you. So, um, thank you everyone for coming to this to this meeting, um, where we'll be discussing the recent raises for politicians and their proposed repeals.

Um, since it's been a little while, let me start with a brief summary of the issues. Um, in June 2024, then city councilors unanimously approved raises for themselves and the mayor. They passed ordinances or local laws setting the mayor's salary at $285,000, a 79% increase above his previous take-home pay and the council's salary at $44,500, representing a 50% pay boost.

The raises were to kick in 6 months later on January 1st, 2025. As we know, the raises proved incredibly unpopular. Critics objected to their size, especially the mayors, which would have seen him make more money than every other mayor in the country except LA's, as well as the lack of a single public hearing about them.

But despite a massive outcry and an organized petition movement against the raises after their passage, the council refused to reconsider its votes until midocctober 2024 when the city announced an abrupt about faith, saying that the council and mayor would defer taking the raises until the start of their next terms.

The reason was revealed a few weeks later. The state ethics commission had raised conflict of interest concerns about politicians accepting pay boosts in the same term they had proposed or voted on them.

Fast forward to today when a new city council has taken office. The previous raise ordinances remain on the books having never been repealed or amended by the previous council. So this council came into office receiving the $15,000 raise that many of us had campaigned against.

When I reached out to the state ethics commission before I was sworn in to ask if the new council could repeal the raise in our current term, I was told that we could not. The same state conflict of interest law that forced the mayor and previous council from taking the raises last term prevents this council from cutting our salaries via ordinance this term.

But in our last committee discussion of the issue, solicitor Timonss explained that there was a workaround that did not rely on writing or passing any ordinances. He said individual counselors who wanted to return the raise immediately could write a letter to the city asking for our pay to be reduced.

This administrative deferment is similar to what the previous council did to comply with conflict of interest law, only this time it's voluntary. In a moment, I'll give any counselors who wish uh who wish to the opportunity to share how they're handling their current salary.

After that, we'll invite the solicitor back to answer any questions from other counselors about the administrative deferments and raises, which remain on the books with 2025 start dates. Finally, we can discuss wiping the raises off the books at the earliest term possible through repeal ordinances.

My hope is that we can repeal the previous raise ordinances before the summer recess in July so that we can start a new process to calculate fair raises when we reconvene in September. And with that, I would like to open the floor to anyone who would like to share what they're doing with their current salaries.

Public comment. No. Would any members of council Yep. Councelor Ryan. Thank you. Um, madam. Uh, so I wrote a letter dated March 30th to the business manager office of municipal finance to have my salary deferred to the salary that was originally set in the fiscal year 2025 budget which was 297.

Now the effective date should be as of January 3rd, 2026. Unfortunately, I did not realize that you couldn't do it retroactively. But at the same time, I have um made some non um profit donations and later on this year, I will be um typing up a letter of which nonprofit organizations I have um donated to.

I also want to uh state that uh in an interview with Peter Blandino, I had stated that in order to um have the noise reduced, which wasn't really the correct word, so I do apologize for that. It's not noise.

We should have done this probably sooner rather than later, but it has been done. And I commit to what I had stated during my uh campaign. Thank you. Um would anyone else on the council Yeah, Councelor Jacobs.

Hi. Um yep. I also did the same. I wrote a letter to the business director um around the middle of April deferring my raise to the raise of the former council. Um like the other councilors here, I accepted that raise for x amount of pay periods.

Um, I wrote a check the other day for $3,000 to the Quinsey band boosters, and that is a little bit more than the actual total of what I actually received and the raise. And I suggest that the other counselors find a nonprofit that they want to donate money to uh if they deferred.

and uh we received money during those uh pay periods uh from January to whenever they sign that deferral letter. So anybody else? Uh councelor Riley. Thank you. Uh councelor McGee. Um I'd just like to clarify that you know when we um were brought on board um and each of us went into human resources, it's not like we were given any kind of option.

we were given paperwork to sign like you would with any new job. It's been a long time since I've been onboarded with a with a you know I've been self-employed for so long. Um so it's not like we ever had the option to take any action at the time that we were brought on board.

Um so for me I had personally found that the um raises were long overdue, however flawed in their execution. I pledged to give my money to charity. the net the net difference in pay because I'm still paying taxes and um I have to participate in the union.

Um so I have given to interfaith social services dove. Um I made an I make an annual donation every year to the Quinsey public schools for their um their students that need help paying for prom and other graduation activities.

So I will continue to do that and I hope that we can get this process right going forward. Thank you. Anyone else? Councelor Mahoney. Oh, one second. Oh, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I was really jumping the gun there.

So, I appreciate what um councelor Riley just explained. And what I also want to explain, I did defer my salary. I've also donated and prior when I was on the city council when the salary was 298, I donated then too.

A lot of the salary that we get here on the council turns up in your community because there's a lot of things we get asked for. I have no problem donating to services within our community to help our community.

The salary I did defer just because it's easier to keep track of it and quite honestly I do think it was flawed and it is one of those things that I did talk about and maybe we really need to take a step back and realize that it could eventually end up being around the same price but really same same amount of what's being compensated but there was real no backup when they did this in the council and what we really need to do is have a real discussion about the size of our city the amount people get paid in other communities and really that data and have a real conversation about it.

It's nice that the mayor I know that how this worked because I was the council. They wanted to give a raise to the council back then, too. It was like the mayor is going to give you a raise. There's and this is what we think it should be, but that's not really how it should be.

It should be a discussion so that the taxpayers understand why we're asking for that or why we're getting that raise and it's backed up in factual data. And that's what I think this conversation is about.

So, this is not about saying that the previous council is terrible. It's really about saying we just want to set the record straight for our constituents and make sure that we have a real conversation about these things and have a real way path forward to be able to show what the what the salary raises should be.

And I just wanted to mention that. Thank you. Anyone else? Councelor Ash. Thank you. um looking forward to discussing the the orders in front of us, these next four orders. But, you know, prior to elected office, during elected office, and I'm sure long after elected office, whatever that day may be, I will continue um to support our amazing nonprofits and organizations in the city.

Um I don't think, you know, to get into a contest of who's donating how much to which organization, I think it quite frankly, it's a little juvenile. Um, but I will say that like all of you, we all support great organizations that are close to our hearts for different reasons.

Um, and I will continue to do that. Thank you. Anyone else? Yes, Councelor Hubley. Thank you, Madam Chair. So, if you were to tell me back in 2024 that we would still be working on this, I would have told you you're a little crazy.

But um we're here nonetheless. I kind of thought this would have been after the initial uh process and after the initial feedback to the process, I didn't really think we'd still be here working through this, but we are.

Um so because of that, when I announced my campaign, it was like April or so back in 2025, I really centered my message on, you know, thorough oversight, community building, and also mainly protecting the neighborhoods from unwanted development.

And so from there, as I told the press, as I told every voter that I knocked on their door and they asked me about this question, I said pretty much the same thing. Um, while I think the process, you know, met the letter, might have met the letter of the law, it probably didn't meet the spirit of the intent, which I think would have um, benefited from some more public input, a little bit more time and and and discussion about it.

And um I think going from there I I'm really interested in seeing us have a vigorous discussion about you know what the compensation should be especially having been in the position for you know a couple of months now I can certainly say and I'm hoping my colleagues would you know agree with this that it is a lot of work when you when you do it intentionally and you do it thoughtfully you put in a lot of time and a lot of work and as I said the vote said to the voters at the door I'm very much in favor of revisiting this topic IC reassessing the compensation for all elected officials and how we handle it going forward through a vigorous conversation with a lot of public input and I'm glad we're getting around to doing that now.

Um which is great and and that's not a criticism of you know when we're getting to it. I'm just glad we're we're working on it now. Um I didn't like the process. It went really quick. Um and so I'm happy to revisit this topic and uh let's see.

Yeah, I think that's pretty much it. Thank you. Thank you, Council Yuen. So, at this year's February 2nd city council meeting, I announced that several counselors, including myself, had had decided to donate our portion of councilor's race to nonprofit organizations.

Since then actually even before then I have uh consulted with residents, city employees and some public officers about which organizations would be most appropriate recipient for these funds. So um because this is a taxpayer funded compensation, I take it seriously and want to ensure it it is used in a way that benefit most to the community.

Subsequently, I contacted the principles at three public elementary school and Francis Parker and Snaga Harour and Lincoln Hancock and and I have met superintendent Mr. Maui and Miss Parkkins and discussed about uh developing some specific educational programs um supported by this funds.

So I have donated the first quarter of my pay raise to these three schools 1,000 each and I plan to donate the remainder of my pay raise to these schools on a quarterly base. I'm very happy to support Quincy Public Schools.

Thank you. Anyone else? Oh, Councelor Deona. Thank you, Madam Chair. Um, I've been elected since 2015. I think I kind of in a different boat than everybody else up here. Um, I don't giving a step back to 2015.

It was a very tough race. Uh, Doug Gutro ran for mayor. Um and he opened up a seat on city council at large and in that race it was Joe Finn, Nina Leang, myself, Mike McFallin was an actual sitting incumbent and then Dave McCarthy.

You see you have five seats, five people running for three seats. It was a very hard race and no one ever told that the newbies would win and uh it was Joe Finn, myself and Nina won those seats. Two years later, Ann Mahoney sitting next to me, um we've been in a lot of races together.

Um Joe Finn has stepped down in 2017 and decided to run and me and Nina were now incumbents. And you also saw Margaret Leaf Farest coming off award one for eight years. And then Dan Ramani coming off the DPW.

He resigned from DPW on June 30th and ran in July 1st. So you have five strong contenders running for three seats. Um and in that particular race it was myself and Mahoney and Neil Leang. Those two particular years were very very tough races out there in the city of Quinsey.

Um and then in 19 and 21 and 23 and 25 I had ran successfully. Um Ann and I Ann and I have run including school committee in 2013. We've run against each other six times. Both of us have been successful in all six races.

Um I was talking to Walter Hubley offline about the ward counselor role. I says, "Well, ward counselor is a little bit more in depth, but at large is very hard to win. It's very difficult to win an ATL large seat." And her and I have been in a lot of races together.

Um quite a bit. Hyenne um um 2025 race was intense out there. Um, a lot of city councilors sitting up here tonight were were running against me. I was out there on the street with all the incumbents that had to absorb these raises.

Um, it was a very difficult situation. I get my head kicked in for two straight years. I'm still getting my head kicked in today continuously. Um, it's been very hard to and difficult to absorb because um, I think this is a great city.

I think we have a lot of things to offer and I understand your role as being as I guess transparent to the public, but there's a lot of great things that have happened all these years since I've been on the council.

It's my 11th year. The Hancock Adams Common um is unbelievable. 2017 that's revitalized and um and all the different development downtown um I know we need to do more work and we need to get better. Um, all the years since I've been an elected official, since even 2013 on the school committee, I've donated to various uh Quinsey public schools, uh, all the youth sports, uh, veterans groups, all the causes that need anything out in the city, I've been open to donate to.

I mean, we're talking thousands upon thousands of dollars every year, and I will continue to do that. Um, you know, being a rookie counselor is is very different because you're you're you're coming up here and you're learning basically how to be a counselor.

It's it's very difficult. I've served with over 20 different counselors now with this new group. Um, with a lot of different personalities, a lot of different ways of working with each other. Um, and it's been it's been a been a learning curve just to learn each and every one of you's personalities and the way you conduct your business as a counselor.

As an atlarge counselor, I've always been cognizant of the ward counselor and their particular wards and working with them. I always like them to lead their wards. Um, with that being said, I'm a ward one resident as well.

So, um, I mean, just looking over all the terms, it was Margaret Leaf Forest and then it was Dave McCarthy and now it's David Jacobs. Ward two, it was Brad Kroll and then it was Anthony Andronico and now it's Richard Ash.

Ward three, I came in rookie with um, Ian Kaine and now it's Walter Hubli. In Ward four, it was Brian Palamucci and Jimmy Divine and now it's Virginia Ryan. In Ward five, I've served with Kirsten Hughes.

Um, you know, and Chuck Failen and now, um, Maggie McGee. In Ward Six, I've served with Deborah Riley and and and Bill Harris and at large, Joe Finn, Nina Leang, Ann Mahoney, and Scott Campbell. Um, it's been a long list of people that have come in and out of these seats over the years.

Um, I just want to say and I appreciate you giving us all an opportunity to speak tonight because um, I don't think people have the full history. Some of people are coming to the table in the last two years and you know the particular raises have brought a lot of people out to listen, but I've been around here a long time now.

Um, we've been around here a long time. Um, school committee and council, but I just, you know, I think everybody just keep an open mind moving forward. I am looking forward to the discussions on this because it might be back at the same pay to be honest with you with the proper um I'll close with this.

I was council president 2022 and 2023. Council president right now is Ann Mahoney. Prior to that is Ian Kaine. In the last two semesters or two years I've not been on any of the other ones besides oversight.

I always allow the president of the council to conduct the way they're doing it and let the ca the chair conduct the way they run their meetings. So please understand that that's very important to me as a counselor to let you run those chairmanships and those presidencies from your point of view.

So please understand that prior to this council when everybody talks about well they ran it this way well we have to give the proper procedural of the presidency and the department I mean and the chairs of those particular committees.

So please take that under consideration. Thank you. Thank you. I think that's everybody. Did any anyone have anything else to add before I briefly say something? Okay. So, um, so the raises were very important to me and, um, it was more that they were kind of symbolic of a larger issue, um, in the city.

Uh, that had to do with whether or not people were allowed to have a voice in city council meetings and felt welcome and included in city government. um whether things were being done in a way that you could kind of point to an a reason for why things were the way they were.

And because I felt that those things were were absent, we didn't have any ability to speak even though we had asked multiple times. Um there was really no kind of data backing up why, you know, the council salary was the way it was and why uh the there was a report um for the mayoral raise, but that didn't include any elected mayors.

It was all appointed hired city managers, which is a different type of thing. So for me, the process is the most important thing because the process is what can give people a sense of trust in government.

And that's what I think I'm hoping that we can kind of um return to and and build up again. U because I think a lot of people lost that trust after um how the raises were handled before. So, I'll just briefly say that um I wrote a letter on April 10th to ask that my pay be lowered to the previous council salary and um had already given the amount of the raise to um food pantries um interfaith social services, good neighbors at uh St.

Christoms, I'm not sure if I'm saying that right, and uh QCAP. So, yeah. So, so now it's given back, it's been donated. Um, and I hope that we can really dive into things and try to try to do have a doover that I think makes everyone feel better about the process.

So, with that, I will ask um, solicitor Timonss to come up um, and see if any counselors have questions because I was the only one who asked questions the last time um, you were up here. So, would anyone else like to ask questions about the raise process or uh deferments or anything related to this?

I never heard from anyone so I suspect there are no questions. Um response to your question. Yes. About the re the impact on retirement. Yes. So I had just I had emailed Silicon Friday asking whether so that because the dates were the same and never changed in the ordinance.

Um to to find out what what the pension implications are for that because because they it it says $285,000 as of January 1st, 2025. Well, I'll first tell you that um I'm not a lawyer who does pension work.

Um so, um with that caveat, I'm going to tell you the answer that I learned and I believe is the correct answer. The way that one's calculate, one's uh pension is calculated is um they look at the pool of money from which your contributions have been taken.

So what the way that's been interpreted is uh universally in this state that whatever you're actually paid is the basis for your pension. Um, one uh kind of underlying misconception that has to be understood is that the Quinsey Retirement Board is completely autonomous from the city.

Um, they don't answer to the city. They answer to Pier, which is a state agency. Um, I did get this information through Pier and I've confirmed it as best I'm able. uh that what that means is in response to your question the mayor's pension will be calculated based on whatever the actual salary that he was paid was.

So, and that would be the same um as the group here. Although I think councils need to understand that to the extent they're accepting the full salary um that's what their pension would be calculated on the f what they do with the money once they receive it that's of no effect.

So, so you you got this information for PARK um and the Quincy Retirement Board would make the ultimate decision um whenever the mayor decides to retire. Is that is that right? But that's correct. Okay.

It's up to the retirement board and then it gets sent up to PRA. They review it. Is it possible to get in writing that the that this would happen or do we should we ask um the Quincy Retirement Board?

Do they have a solicitor that they work with? Like would I guess I'm just thinking like again to kind of make sure that everyone understands because pension had been a big question in the community. Okay.

Have have I been unclear? So I'm happy to clarify. It's whatever you are actually paid. The ordinance for the mayor says 285,000. He's actually been paid um since he agreed to the deferment 151 or something like that.

And what happens is um the information from UniFi about what the mayor's been actually paid would get sent over to the retirement board and they would then do the calculations. That happens to every employee in the city.

Okay. But there's no way to get this in in writing from from you. It would be coming from the Quincy Retirement Board or Do you want me to write a sentence or what? I don't understand what you want. I mean, I'm standing here in front of a public body.

I'm the city solicitor. I've been in this position since 2008. I answered your question. I don't understand why you want anything in writing, counselor, but if you want something in writing, you should feel free to contact the retirement board of peer act.

Okay. Okay. That's it's that easy. Okay. But beyond that, I'm not quite sure. I was not asked to provide a memo. Um I asked you on Friday, if there are any questions, just let me know. You were the only one who responded and um you know, I'm answering it.

So, but if you need something in writing, I'm not sure why you would need something in writing. And frankly, it's a little unclear why we're this focused on this particular issue at this juncture. Um, councelor Deoner alluded to some of the things going on earlier and but whatever you need um beyond what I've said, there's cameras on me, there's counsel is here.

Um, and I did give the caveat that I'm not a pension lawyer, but I talked to people who know, and it's pretty it's a pretty simple concept. It's whatever you're actually paid. It's not what the ordinance may may state.

And um, I guess it's the it's the caveat that that makes me concerned. And it would be nice to have something in writing that points to where it says that about the what you're paid in MUN. Well, then I I would why don't you contact um I don't know who the retirement board would refer your question to or how they would answer it, but um they they can answer that.

Okay. Well, thank you very much for coming up and let me just let me just ask one more time in case anybody's thought of questions since Friday. Oh, okay. Councelor Ryan. Thank you, Councelor McGee. Um, so with regards to the salary increases, at the time that the city council and the mayor approved the raises, why didn't you, as city solicitor, contact the ethics committee to ensure that there was no conflict of interest?

Or did you contact the ethics committee? No, I did not. And the reason I did not is because the city followed a state statute that provides for how a city council and a mayor obtains a pay raise. We followed it explicitly which was acknowledged by the um state ethics commission.

They just said that they have an overarching issue that being the issue of when you take the raise. So, notwithstanding the fact there's a state statute on the books that says that you take the raise, uh, I believe it's the year following.

I'm now a little less familiar with it because this issue is long in the rearview mirror. Um, but we followed it explicitly. I got a phone call from a city attorney and another greater Boston community when he heard what was going on here in Quinsey wondering what had gone wrong and what had gone arry.

And I've had discussions with other colleagues in the uh Mass Municipal Law Association who have followed the same statute we did. Okay. So the issue was resolved pretty quickly when we got the call from state ethics.

Okay. So you may think that you know the this uh issue is long in the rear view mirror but we still have ordinances there with the new salary which have never been reversed. And so I would think if you really wanted to complete due diligence that should have been done.

You lost me on that one. Okay. What due diligence? Due diligence means that you would have reversed the ordinances to the salary that's in effect now. Well, I'm the city solicitor, right? This body reverses ordinances.

I I can't do that. That's up to you. Correct. And there has been pending since January Well, I don't have when it initially came in. I think it was January 20th. There's been pending before this body a series of ordinances to address this issue.

Um I have not been asked by this body any questions. So it's up to you how you deal with it and I'm happy to help out to provide information. I've worked with the council president on some open meeting law issues.

I've worked with other counselors on various issues. So, counselor, if you had any issues or questions, I'd be delighted to help out or answer them. Okay. Thank you very much. I will follow up with you on that.

Very good. All right. I think I saw Okay. Um I think I saw Councelor Yuen and then councelor Riley. Okay. And thank you, Sister Mr. Timmans. And here are a couple of questions from residents. Massachusetts Law MGL Part One, Chapter 43, Section 21, states, "No ordinance shall be amended or repealed except by an ordinance adopted in accordance with this chapter." Instead of following this law, the former city council and the mayor did what you advised, which was writing a letter to defer the pay raise.

Since writing a letter is voluntary voluntary in nature, does that mean legally the mayor's and councelor's races have been in effect since January 1st, 2025? In other words, should the mayor's salary legally be 285,000 and the councelor salary 44,500 since January 1st, 2025?

So, am I to understand that you're telling me what's legal and illegal about what had happened in the past? No, I'm asking it. So, well, I specifically asked for Let me go back a minute. The city charter provides that when the council has questions for the mayor or any of his design that they should provide the questions in writing to the mayor's office and then he determines how they'll be handled.

It's I believe it's section 19 of the charter. I, as I said, I've been the solicitor since 2008. That has never ever been invoked. Now, I had a rather aggressive question asked by councelor Ryan. I'm not sure the nature of the question or why it was asked in the manner it was.

Now, you're informing me and I'm not sure about your background. Um, but this is, you know, this filtered in during the prior discussions with councelor McKe about the word repeal and its implications.

Um, I think that it would be best I'm having a little problem with my hearing tonight. Anyway, these are my uh I don't know where my A-grade um earphones are. So, I think you and I should have a discussion.

Um, and I'm happy to then return to the body, but I don't understand the nature of your question. You're reciting certain statutory references that I have not had the benefit to either see make certain that you're reciting them accurately and that you're understanding what they're saying.

Um, nor I have I had the opportunity to consider them. So, I'm going to ask that that questioning line be chaired. Um, and we'll happily I'll happily follow up. This is why I asked on Friday. I'd have the answer today if someone had given me notice.

But the pop quiz approach that's been employed by this council with folks who come to the podium, it's problematic. And I'm certainly not gonna, you know, I I I want to be very fair and I want to be accurate.

I've given you an accurate answer and I've told you where to go to get it in writing. I'll do what I can to help people, but they have to ask. And a pop quiz at the podium. I'm just not ready to answer that.

I'll have to understand your your full question and I'm happy to talk more on it. So, um yeah, just Yeah. Um I just want to clarify this question is coming from residents and I just got this question so I couldn't have time to submit it to to you early enough and uh as you said you you are not aware that uh MGL part one chapter 43 section 21 since we have discussed a lot of about how to repeal an ordinance and this uh section 21 specific talk about you have to use ordinance to amend or repeal another ordinance.

So you are not aware of this one. Okay. Did this come in as an email? The question from the resident? No. Qu uh res can forward it to me. Forward it to me and I'll look at it. I'm happy to I can I can send this question to you and so so if you if you don't know this well counselor I'm here tonight after having been asked by the chair of this committee to answer one question and I've provided the answer.

I'm going to be here later to talk about ENC and I'm prepared to talk about both of those and I'm familiar with the fact that Eastern Nazarine College implicates chapter 40 section 14. All right, you're talking about chapter 43 section 21.

I know what chapter 43 is. It's called the charter statute. Now, how section 21 got carried into our city charter, I'm not sure. And whether 4321 even applies to a plan A form of government, I don't know.

But there's plenty I understand about your question. All right. That once you said chapter 43, that's where all the city charters in Massachusetts come from. But I can't answer the question that some resident who may or may not be a lawyer um may or may not you know understand these things uh profered to you.

Thank you. And I just have a question. Um what? Well, I think maybe we should we should have him return and ask these questions in advance. Just actually Okay. Okay. All right. Uh, council un council.

Um, yeah, I think I think that we we better pause this right now. Um, so it sounds like uh you would like questions. I think that we we invited you here because you are the city solicitor and you oversaw this issue.

So, we were hoping to be able to just ask you questions. If you don't, you know, if you're not familiar with certain things, that's okay. Well, I'm fine with that. And I I asked you on Friday, you know, to to just give me the questions because I wanted to make sure because there's a lot here I don't understand.

We've now got six versions of these ordinances floating around. I'm happy to answer if council has something to ask. I don't want to cut her off. I'm just telling her on chapter 43 section 21. You're going down okay a rabbit hole.

So not on chapter 43 section 21. Councelor Yuen, do you want to ask a very brief question that is not about that? Okay. So uh we cannot mention MGL section 21. I'm just asking I'm just asking since now uh councelor just writing a letter to defer the race and this is completely unvoluntarily based.

So that means legally they their salary is still like a counselor race still 44,500 because some people don't write the letter they still get that salary. So legally the race already taking effect. Is that correct?

Yes. the the the raises have taken effect here and that's absolutely the case and some councils have chosen to defer um in fairness to some of the others who didn't run on the issue and whatnot they've chosen not to.

So the follow-up question so the mayor also wrote a letter to defer his race like a council that is correct. So that's question is uh because because the deferring this approach is voluntary in the nature.

So that means uh mayor's legal salary is already 285 thou uh 285,000 from 2005 January 1st even though he didn't take it. Is that correct? Well, the the way this worked, the ordinance says that his salary is 285.

The state ethics commission contacted me. They had a problem with what went on. They said that well, I I'm not going to get into that because that's another little issue here. We've been a lot we've been extremely forthcoming about that state ethics event I'm going to call it because it never became an investigation because of how we handled things.

I worked with a prosecutor in the legal unit of state ethics and this was her remedy that we write these letters and that's what we all did. And now you have colleagues of yours who are doing the same.

And by doing that, they're reducing the amount of money they're receiving from the city, which is what I just explained to the council president is the basis for calculating things like pensions and everything.

And the state ethics commission said fine, Mayor Ko got into this issue with his salary, but he agreed to defer it. So he has not committed any violation of the state ethics law because he didn't accept the money.

So there was no financial benefit conferred upon him. That's what the state ethics commission in my discussions with the particular person involved how we that's the remedy we came up with. And so you're talking apples and oranges when you're talking about chap uh chapter 43.

State ethics is chapter 268A and it was chapter 268A that controlled what happened um the outcome with the salaries. So I just want to clarify since writing uh council I'm so sorry we we need to give someone else a chance right now.

So councelor Riley do you want to briefly say thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. Um, a couple of things. First of all, I I hope people maybe don't understand the timing. You know, we we get our agenda solidified on Thursdays um from council meeting on Monday.

So, there's a lot we have to digest. There's people reaching out to us until 3 or 4:00 in the afternoon on our way here. So, you know, we don't always have um Mr. Timonss the the ability to get back to you, but I recognize that, you know, the pop quiz format isn't fair either.

So, um I do think that we need to recognize that Solicitor Timonss is the the chief legal counsel for this city and for this body and we need to give him that respect. Um he he is worthy of that. So, I'd just like to state that on the record.

Um quick easy I think an easy question for you, Mr. Timmons. As these orders are now written before us tonight, you did mention the first time that the repeal meant that nobody would get paid, the mayor, none of us, no one be would get paid, would all be volunteers.

As these orders are written, is that still the case or do you feel that these orders can be acted upon? We can all defer, deflect, donate, whatever we're doing. Are these orders in good legal order for us to take action on them?

All right. Um, that one is a little easier. The if folks are interested in deferring and they defer, there's no issue. The use of the re the word repeal is fatal to these ordinances and remains fatal because the vote is occurring now.

Um it says in paragraph one that a section one that's the repealed section in the new revised ordinance. So what happens is the first thing that happens is you revi you repeal the prior ordinance and then the second thing that's happens is you try to tackle a a change.

Well, as I've been trying to say, if you read 2024 055 and 2024056, those were written as all prior edits of salaries have been written in the past. Um, they reference chapter 72, article 1, section 721.

That's the salary provision. When you repeal this ordinance, you wipe out not only the new version, but all its predecessors. And that's not me. That's what the word repeal means. That's why in all of these, you see revised or deleted.

You see those words used. But when you repeal, we use the word repeal when we amended the zoning ordinance in 2011. And the reason we did that is we didn't want to have any ambiguity. We passed the new amended ordinance in 2011, passed the zoning ordinance and had a provision right in it that all prior versions of the zoning ordinance are repealed.

That way there'd be no ambiguity about well the prior ordinance said this or that. But when you do it on a salary line, I frankly am not sure what's going to happen in 2008 because you're going to have repealed the salary line.

So now you're going to have to come back in, introduce a new salary line into the um ordinance. And um because it's going to begin at the very beginning January of 2008, very beginning of terms, that means you're going to have to wait to implement until the end, which I think is I think is the intention.

But if I could just ask a couple more questions um or or maybe just make a statement. If we can act on these, I'll act on them. But I just would like to um thank Council Dona for all of the history he was able to provide because I did want to make a statement that almost four years ago to the day uh then President Dabona proposed an increase to the city councilors via a budget appropriation.

So in May the budget appropriation raised the pay 7650 $7,650 to an annual rate of 37,436. um a council is opposed and the measure was defeated um by decreasing that same line item budget um and that raise was to have taken effect in January 2023.

Interestingly enough, there was also a salary allowance for the council for 64,800 which has since been eliminated. So it certainly seems that if that measure had passed, it would not have avoided the same ethics um oversight that has put us in this situation.

So, I guess the question is what is the right way to do this? It sounds like we're going to repeal effective and and and work on uh replacing it with something else. But, um I just want to make sure that we handle this correctly going forward that we get it right this time um with proper guidance, oversight, and public input.

Thank you. Well, two things. Number one, when you mentioned about getting your paperwork on Thursday, on Friday, I just asked to get things in writing. could have come Saturday, could have come over the weekend, could have come today just in advance so I could look it up.

Then perhaps I could have uh engaged a little more readily on uh council un's question. Number two, what happened with councelor Deabon's measure was we followed the same law we followed most recently and no one complained to the state ethics commission.

The sole reason that we ran into problems there was someone complained to the state ethics commission and they called my office and when that happened I was pointing out well there's an issue here because everyone else around the state before we move forward on anything we checked with other communities and there's other communities out there who did exactly what we did but no one reported it.

though. Um, that's what happened. I urge you not to pass anything that says repeal because I think the ripple effect and the repercussions is grave. But you're right about trying to get things correctly.

Now that we're on notice from state ethics, we're aware of when things will take effect and we'll make sure that that's part of the whole process. So, um, thank you, Councelor Riley. Is that is that we have another comment from um Council President Mahoney.

Thank you very much. Um am I on? Um Solicer Timmons, I appreciate you being here tonight and I actually agree with Council Riley and I understand you're saying we could send you the emails all weekend long, but you know, we would like to have things earlier so we can do that.

But one of the things I'm finding problematic tonight is that the chair of this committee asked you to put in writing something to her and you're saying it's a public meeting. I don't have to put it in writing.

Just watch the meeting. Well, she's asking our city solicitor who's standing before us telling us something to put it in writing. We're asking that so we have it in writing. And if I watch the public meeting and you say that, that's different than having something in writing.

very very common for people to ask for legal things to be put in writing because when it's in writing it's it's basically given your opinion. We can go talk to Perrick and we can go talk to all these other people, but what we wouldn't have is something in writing from the city solicitor who stood up here in front of us and told us that, you know, repealing a salary is different than the ordinance and that you have to pay into the amount.

But when you repeal your salary, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, not repeal. I said the repeal word because we keep talking about that defer. When you defer a salary and it's in an ordinance that you could get paid that much money, that that's you're deferring it.

you're saying, "I don't want that." Just like I'm doing it right now. I'm taking it off my salary line. I deferred it. I'm not getting paid that money. I'm getting paid less. And in this particular case, I believe back and I don't remember the date, but I think it was in the Quinsey Sun.

Thank you, Scott. I believe what it said in the Quinsey Sun was the mayor was deferring his salary, but he wanted to keep the line item in the budget for a visual reminder of what this position should be paid, which it didn't end up staying in the budget.

But why would we want that? And it doesn't matter if it's in the budget or not because you could go and you could appeal at the retirement board. It happens all of the time in Quinsey. Somebody will go and appeal something and say, "I feel as though I should get this.

The ordinance said it. I I deferred it. I gave it back. I deferred it. But I'm entitled to that even though I didn't pay into it." And you can you can fight that out. You can hire a lawyer to do that just like you said earlier this evening.

I'm not a lawyer that specializes in this. So, I doubt that you'd be the person representing somebody in that situation, but that's the question I think that counselor McKe was trying to get an answer from.

And you gave her an answer in public and she's asking for you to give it to her in writing. Now, wait one second. Nope. I'm going to I'm I have the floor right now. So, Mr. Timmons, you say all the time, we brought we're supposed to work together.

We're supposed to work together. If somebody asked me for writing and I was a city solicitor, I would give it to them in writing because I'd have no fear of saying, "I said it in public. I'll give it to you in writing.

Summarize it from when you watch the tape." That's what you would do. Summarize what you said from when you watch the tape. Send her a note. This is what I said. I'll back my words up. That's all she's asking for.

That is all she was asking for. And I'm certainly happy to make sure I send every email to you to make sure we have an early decision for you to be able to have those things. I don't have any questions tonight.

I don't. But what I will say is I think that we should be able to have these conversations without being so defensive, which is what you're feeling like. And I just didn't appreciate that the way you were talking to Council McGee.

Yes, I'm defensive. You were being defensive. Yeah, you were. You were basically saying, "What is it that I'm saying that you don't understand? You don't think that's that's you don't think that's defensive?

That's defensive." So, but I I'm going to say this right now. uh we're asking or what was being asked of you was to put it in writing and that is something that is requested from this council from you who stood in front of us to put in writing what you said tonight about the deferring of the raises and whether or not it would impact the retirement board.

So in case just because it was asked that's all I'm saying. All right, you're all set with your nonqu question. All right, here's my response. Now I insist that I be allowed to respond. So, um, councelor McKe can speak for herself.

She asked me, "Where can I get this in writing and I that's the question I answer." Thank you. Thank you very much. We We are actually approaching the 7:30 mark. I did want to briefly say a few things.

Um, well, before you do, I'm responding to something. I ask that you reconvene this meeting after we go through the opening of the council meeting cuz I have several things that warrant a response here.

All right. Um well, we will we will uh put this on hold and start the the other meeting, the regular meeting. Good evening everybody. We would like to call the city council meeting Monday, May 18th, 2026.

It's a little after 7:30 to order. Um, could we call the role members of the members coun city clerk, sorry. Council Ash, council Dabona, present. Council Hubley, present. Council Jacobs, present. Council McKe, present.

Council Riley, present. Council Ryan, council, present. President Mahoney, present. If we could all stand for a moment of silence. And if we could turn to pledge allegiance the flag to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all.

City clerk, could you please read the open meeting law? Yes. Mr. President, pursuant to the open meeting law, any person may make an audio or video recording of this public meeting or may transmit the meeting through any medium.

Attendees are therefore advised that such recordings or transmissions are being made whether perceived or unpersceived by those present and are deemed acknowledged and permissible. Thank you very much.

At this point, we do have residents open forum. It's during the regular meeting of the city council when we have um ordinance, finance, or anything else. We don't have public unless it's a public a public forum.

So, as you sign up, we will begin to bring you up. I'd like to remind people that it's three minutes and if you are from outside the city, we ask that you go last after the city residents Quincy residents speak.

for us right now. We'll be getting shortly. Thank you very much. So, first up we have Hank Dondo. and gond. Wow. I don't believe this. Are you serious? I thought I had a come to m come to Jesus moment yesterday, but man, this is really amazing.

Some of the responses from the city councilors to the city solicitor is embarrassing. And you're on TV. My god, what are you doing? You know, I was going to I sat out at the at the uh beautiful Hancock Adams green out there and I sat in front of the fountain for about 15 minutes and I'm just composing myself.

I was going to come in here and I was going to be gentle. I was going to be kind. I wasn't going to attack anyone. But you're a bunch of clowns. Clowns? Really? What can I say? You know, uh, this city wouldn't be what it is if a lot of you people on this council were here 10 years ago.

This city wouldn't be what it is. The schools wouldn't be what they are if you people on the council were here 10 years ago. Uh, I don't know what you're going to do with ENC council McGee, that's in your area.

What are you going to do? You going to b for that to have something else disposed of in the city inventory of property? This is not This is not game. It is gamesmanship actually. You know, it's an embarrassment.

A total embarrassment. And I'm glad it's on. Was it channel 10? I'm glad it's on channel 10 because I'm looking forward to it. I'm going to sit in front of the TV with popcorn. I don't know how much time I have left.

Two minutes. Minute and a half. Really? But wow. I don't know if I can talk this much. Two more. Two more minutes. Whenever you want. I had the opportunity yesterday to go to a very close friend of mine's 50th anniversary of becoming a priest.

50 years as a priest. And I sat there and I said, "My god, this guy is incredible." I'm not like that. I'm not a priest. I don't go to church. But it just, as I said, a come to Jesus moment. And that's why I was going to really, really try hard to not be antagonistic.

But that's not my nature. Some of you know me. It's not my nature. And some of you that don't know me are sure as hell going to find out because it starts now. Okay. One and done. One and done. One and done.

All right. November 2nd, 2027. Coming, baby. And you're not going to be stealing an election the way you did the last time. Gonna be a lot of people out there. Excuse me. Uh, I'd like to have my time back.

Reclaim my time for the interruption. You people are really hysterical. All right. I have nothing further to say other than I'm going to get dressed up as a clown the next time. Excellent. Gail Callahan.

Hello. Gail Callahan, 437 Quarry Street, Quinsey. Hi everyone. So, first of all, I'm very happy that you've all come clean with the raises. It's and it was noise. Whoever said that, it was I'm glad to have that done and over with.

I think it's great that you have told us what you've done with it. I think that's a wonderful thing. I wish you had told us first before you told the ledger. I do have a problem with that. I really would have wished that you did this and then the ledger could have reported on it tomorrow instead of the other way around.

But other than that, kudos to you. You did the right thing. For those of you that wanted to defer, great. Those of you that didn't, also great. I happen to be in favor of the raises. I know that's not popular, but I am.

I see how hard you work. I listened to uh Maggie last week say that she had asked for more material, but she ran out of time because there was so much to go through and I don't think in the short period of time that you were counselors you had any idea nor how could you how intensive this job was going to be.

So I think the raise is welld deserved. I also think the mayor's race is welld deserved. I don't know how many people would go 10 years or more without getting a raise. They don't. He does run a city with over I checked today it said between 103 and 106,000 people that he is in charge of this city.

That that's what he takes care of with your help. So that is for sure. But I think that he's very deserving of race. Now whether you do the 285 or you go down to 250 or 225 doesn't matter. But it should be a substantial race.

It should be worthy of what he serves here. Um, the other thing is I watch actually I was sick last week so I I listened to your conversations of the budget last week. I really like Susan providing all of the five years.

I thought that was so helpful because as things needed to be cut or whatever, there was an understanding that we've never used this line so you're really not cutting it per se or in some cases where maybe it was higher but we only used this amount and so we still kept it high enough.

So I thought that was really good. Kudos to you for that as well. ENC to me you have to do it. I I wouldn't even understand why you wouldn't do it. I understand the financial stuff, but I also understand the Monroe building was bought with federal funds, so we didn't pay for that.

Forever, uh, Representative Lynch has come in with $1.4 million in federal funds for roadway construction, improvement of public safety and southern artery, and another 500,000 in community projects. That's just to name some.

There's other grand funds that have come in that you should consider when you're talking about all of the things that go into this city and what you're paying for it. Don't ignore that. That's a lot of money.

And so, yes, we're paying a lot of debt, whatever that is, okay? But it does get eventually paid down. ENC is of great value. I would love to see an over 55 community in this community. I might even sell my house and move to it.

That would be awesome for me. Am I over? I did pretty good this time though. Thank you. Next up, we have Jocelyn Sney. Hello, Joselyn Sedney, 85 Monroe Road uh in Quinsey. I'm here to address the uh purchase of ENC.

The request for the purchase price will further negatively impact the debt issues for the city. But in addition to that, my question is how much more is needed to simply maintain the campus from day one.

After the purchase, who will mow the grass? Who will pay the utilities? Who will renovate the building to be used for prek or kindergarten for little people? Who will manage the property? Will there be discounts for Quinsey residents rather than maximizing, excuse me, the revenue for the site?

Will you come back and ask for more? How can you avoid asking for more? We have a budget before us that has no new employees, no new programs. But in this calendar year, we're suggesting that ENC be purchased.

That involves new employees. It has to because I'm assuming our present employees are busy. It's going to invo entail additional programs or expansion of programs. How is that going to get paid from day one?

Are we going to increase the debt even more above that amount of money? We have to be honest with the taxpayers. We've trimmed a budget. We're going to buy a huge piece of property. We have to tell the taxpayers how that's going to be paid for after day one after the purchase.

In closing, we need to maximize the income. Talk about over 55 housing. I say actually it should be over 65 now because times have changed. But anyway, if we want those amongst us who no longer need or want to live in larger homes to move to this prospective community, you must build a community of over 65 or 55 small homes or duplexes with finishes that would tempt people like Mayor Ko and his wife to move to.

That would tempt the city solicitor and his wife to move into. That would tempt Mr. fatsis and his wife to move into that would tempt me to move into and to tempt other people who would be putting their houses on the market.

So the these homes would have to be built and they would command great great prices that would help to maximize the value and help to bring down this debt. Thank you. Thank you Heather. Dhoni. Hi, I'm Heather Dhoni and I live at 912 Southern Arty.

Um, I came tonight actually to say hopefully a quick three things. Um, first, at the last city council meeting, a man had said that I had likely mistaken a golf course water bill abatement for a sewer bill deduction and that he believes that Cory Hills is paying whatever they should be paying.

And I just wanted to gently push back against that and say I wanted to make sure that we know that's not the case and that residents have been forced to subsidize the golf courses water bill in drought years.

And I wanted to pose a question. I want to know will Corey Hills be getting any more of these water bill abatements in this year or the next? And you know who decides that? So that's a question. Um the second thing is I'm glad the new city council is asking why ordinary taxpayers are paying for friends of the mayor to have cheap rent in the Monroe building.

Um, I look at this chart in the Quinsey Sun that with rents all over the place and taxpayers sometimes subsidizing close to $200,000 in missed rent and maintenance fees in a single maintenance fees in a single year for multiple years.

And I see certain well-connected people running private businesses out of there while paying less than $1,000 a month for these prime commercial spaces that are larger than my house. I have a small house.

Um, it seems pretty similar to the golf course grasswatering situation and I don't like it any more than that. Um, ordinary Quincy residents having to pay the difference while getting told it's an altruistic local business support model.

that bothers me. And and so what I wanted to say is that while I understand everyone has a livelihood to make and people benefiting this, I know we're going to loudly defend it and do, I want to say that impunity is not a business model and we need to be charging private companies whatever the market and tax base can actually support.

And so my next comment is, you know, I I don't want to bring a problem without bringing a solution. Um, the more I thought about it, I realized that using part of the Monroe space to actually do some launching of local micro businesses and community focused nonprofits is not a bad idea at all.

I love that idea. There's so many things that people in this city dream of building but can't start or can't keep because they don't have an affordable space to prove themselves in this expensive city.

So, if this is truly about temporary accommodations for the community good, I respectfully ask that you all consider the empty the empty unit on this list or or maybe another unit. I'm I'm not as familiar with this as I would like to be.

And do a pilot project for something innovative. Turn it into a co-working space. Collect applications from local nonprofits and social enterprises. Publicize it on the city website and social media. Put it out there to the people.

Make sure it's open and fair to anyone eligible. fix the problem. Get places like the Monroe building up to market rent, off the taxpayer dime, and fully contributing to the fabric and people of this city.

And if that works well, maybe we can do that with other small businesses and other underutilized city properties, too. Thank you. Thank you, Sudi. Hi, Sudi, 922 C Street. And um I want to talk about the ENC purchase.

Um and I I agree. Councelor Jacob said something last week. He's my ward counselor about being fatigued with the building in the city and you know the constant buying of property and developing it. And um there's nothing wrong with development, but there is a point where like living in housing around there is been like for years really hard.

Like driving up and down sea street just I go to other towns and I'm like wow these roads are so smooth. like and this has been years. This isn't news. So, this kind of leads to the point um I I heard something on the radio the other day.

They were talking about the MBTA and all the problems they've had with the repairs and this guy was saying it's because they deferred fixing things for so long, maintenance for so long and they kept building the tea out and you know building and building rather than maintaining what they had and you know his his assessment was that it's much more important to maintain what you already have than to keep building without especially without a plan.

And I appreciate um the questions you the councils are asking like what is the plan like what do you want to do with that property? Why do we want to buy it without knowing and having those kind of answers?

So I just want to say I appreciate that. Um and just like thinking about you know I live living in housed a uh it turned into an island, right? So we look at climate change, we look at all these things that are happening that we need to prepare for.

And I was thinking last week I talked about Native Americans, you know, being the real the stewards of this prop this land and the people who are here first. And they uh they had something I learned maybe 10 years ago that kind of blew me away.

Whenever they make made decisions, they thought how is this going to impact seven generations from now. So it wasn't about just being in the present and making as much money as you can and you know just build build.

It was about you know how's this going to impact my children, my grandchildren, the people come after me. So, I mean, I'm not saying ENC is going to destroy anything, but it's the idea of like a whole overall plan.

Like, again, climate change is real. Are we going to be underwater in house neck in 20 years? Those are the things I I hope that we think about in addition to these kind of purchases. So, I actually just want to encourage the council to keep asking the kind of questions you're asking and uh just say I appreciate it.

Thank you. Thank you. Next up is Helen Shriner. Good evening. My name is Helen Shiner. I live at 23 Copley Street and I've been at Butter to the East Nazarene campus for over 30 years. I can honestly say it has been they have been great neighbors.

Very rarely have there been any disturbances or disruptions over close to 30 years. I'm here to voice my complete support of the plan for the city to acquire the campus. I believe it is in the best interest of the city and our neighborhood.

As you consider this very important decision, I respectfully ask you to remember you represent all residents of your ward, not only the ones that voted for you or registered voters. There's been a number of times where counselors have stood up and said, "I need to represent the people that put me in office." You represent everybody.

I ask you to remember that your personal opinion is equal to one resident, one opinion. I'm asking you to keep open minds. I'm asking you to think about our neighborhood. I'm asking you to think about the incredible asset that the Eastern Nazarene campus is to Wallist.

I've heard it referred to as a fire drill to drum up interest and create a sense of urgency to to purchase this project. It actually is a fire drill. Where else are we going to find 24 acres with buildings on it that bring value to the city can be used as uh you know for our recreation department for our youth that doesn't have a lot of space for a library for over 55 communities that will benefit our residents.

So it is a bit a bit of a fire drill. If we lose this opportunity it will be a tremendous loss to our city as a whole. I thank you for your time and I ask you to give it serious consideration. Thank you.

Next up, we have Kathleen Kyle. Hi, Kathleen Kyle from 146 Franklin Avenue. I am um here to speak about ENC. I am asking each and every one of the city councilors here to vote in favor of appropriating the funds to purchase this land.

We will not have an opportunity to do this again. If we don't do it, you're taking away the choice of the opportunity for the 14 homes to be sold as um for first-time home buyers in Quinsey. whatever program that the the city comes up with with um losing the arboritum on there.

If we get an outside developer coming in and develops changes the nature of that that landscape, we can never get that number of acreage um back again. And again, I'm just asking each and every one of you to vote in favor of the funding.

I think it'll be the biggest mistake in your career here if you don't vote for that. I've lived in that neighborhood except for four years when I was on Joy Air Force Base. So I've been there for 54 years that I've lived in that neighborhood and it's a great piece of property.

The Nice Library can become a new Wallist branch of the Thomas Green. Um the can take the land up there. So they're redeveloping um the city centers there. That's an opportunity. I just I think it'll be um a big big mistake for the city councilors that vote against appropriating the funds.

I have full um faith that this city will be able to figure out how to fund this. And again, I I'm just asking that you vote in favor of appropriating. Thank you. Thank you. And now we have Zachary Christopher.

Uh Zachary Christopher from 67 Montlair A. Uh I have lived here two years now. Uh moved from uh Hullbrook. I was there for one year and then before that from California. My dad was in the army. So, I've been all around and I chose to live here.

Uh, so that's my stake in the community. Uh, I would like to talk about the council's raise. Uh, cuz I actually hold uh the unpopular opinion that you guys deserve the raise. You see, uh, the per capita income of Quinsey residents per the last annual census is just about 45 to 50,000.

Uh, so that's the average income for the average worker in the area. I don't see a problem with the council having the same wage as the city. Uh, and I do support annual increases to the wage because I think the city council is a very important job.

And the only thing that low wages for the city council does is incentivize already wealthy people to come and join the council because they have outside sources of revenue to support and subsidize the lower income.

So, woo rays. Uh, except the mayor. I don't like the mayor. He can still he can keep his 150. That's three times the average wage. I think he's fine with that. Uh, respectfully. But that aside, um, I just want to say your questions earlier were a bit weird in defense of the solicitor.

Uh, your questions were a bit weird. If I'm not mistaken, everything tonight is recorded in writing and video. So that is the legal documentation you need when asking your questions as far as uh everybody in this room is concerned.

Not a lawyer. Um that is about all I have uh remarks on some of the earlier comments. Golf is dumb. Senior communities are good. And I don't have much stake in the ENC debate, but I do support uh the city government owning property because a it's a good investment in the current market and b community space.

Uh but that's coming from the communist in me. Uh and about the clown nose, it's not to demean any of you on the council. I am a clown at all times. Have a good night. Thank you. All right. So, we don't have anybody else um signed up.

Is there anybody else that wants to come up for open forum? Okay. So, we're going to close open forum. Oh, Bill's coming up. All right. Sorry. It was late to get on the list because I was picking a friend up at the airport.

Okay. I'm sorry to see Mr. Diero's come on, but maybe his friends will tell him. I got a kind of a laugh of him saying that people are referring to be being akin to Clint Eastwood because I am an Eastwood.

My middle name is Eastwood. It comes from my m maternal grandmother's maiden name. Now, I'd have to check with my cousin who's a family genealogologist, but I think Clint and I are third or fourth cousins once removed.

I'm not sure. But what I can say is we're both nativeborn Californians. We both graduated from the University of California, Berkeley. Um, at the same time, I can say I did work with William Boyd, otherwise known as Haplon Cassidy as a kid and I lived in cowboy boots and had my cap guns on my side and I wore them daily until I went to kindergarten and my kindergarten teacher wouldn't let me carry.

In any event, for comments for tonight, earlier someone noted that, well, grant money is great. It's free money. No, it's not. Grants are funded by taxes either paid to the state or the feds that come back to Quinsey.

So, it's basically Quinsey getting a rebate on what it paid out or a return or whatever it happens. Now, maybe the quint city hall could do better about getting it than other communities, but the rules to keep that kind of flat.

The next thing is the bond rating cut this week is something I expected. This is not a small thing. It is going to increase the city's debt burden. Best case, it will take at least two years before they might recover to a higher level.

And that's going to demand a lot of things to happen. And I don't see anything in this budget that's going to get us there. But I do have to report one thing that I found positive. Last week, Councelor Yun pointed out there was a problem with the short-term interest in the budget and what was supposed to be paid.

Now, for especially for those that are listening, the difference is about 9.6 million. And that is courtesy of bond premium. Bond premium is something kind of interesting. If you put a higher interest rate on debt, the buyer of the debt will give you a little extra money.

Think of it as a rebate. Now, I look at it as revenue that's being created to help the mayor to cover its short-term debt interest with the end result being the 492 million budget we're looking at really should be looked at as 502.

Because what has happened is that they took the rebate or the bond premium of 9.6 million and took it off book off of the 25 million or whatever they were 26 million they were looking at for paying interest and bringing it in and not showing it on the div on the budget.

Really what they should do is that 9.6 should be considered at the end of the year just like they take care of all the earned adjustments when they try to figure out the tax limit and the budget actual spending is 5.2 billion on the ask unless it's revised.

Thank you for your time. Okay, Kathy, you're gonna be the last one. Okay. Kathy Throne, uh, 234 Ever Street. I would like to respond to a previous comment because it's driving me nuts. The election was not stolen.

Ladies and gentlemen, I lost. I accept it. Unless it was stolen. Walter want to trade places. So, I just want to make that very clear that the election was not stolen and the communists are not invading except for our clown who I like.

Thank you. Thank you, Kelly. All right, with that, we're going to close open forum and we're going to recess the council meeting and go back into oversight. Okay. Um, returning to the ordinance committee meeting for May 18th at 8:02.

Um, so I there were various things that um that were said in the in the last part of the meeting um that I wanted to address. Um, one of them is that one of the things that I have done with the salary that I am taking um, after giving away the raise is to pay for a lawyer myself.

Um, because I have I I have asked solicitor Tim's questions in the past that I I felt the answers were not um, not correct. Um, for example, the council not having the ability to repeal anything. Um, in the last ordinance committee meeting, we determined that we could repeal things.

Um, in fact, the solicitor mentioned an additional um additional uh place in the law that allows the city council to repeal things. So, the reason that there have been various versions of these um repeals and various that it's taken a little while is because, you know, I I came in as a new city councelor and thought that I could do it through a a resolution at first and then I realized, oh, no, you have to repeal something with an ordinance.

And so, I did that. And then after hearing maybe we couldn't repeal things and maybe it would take the salary to zero, I hired my own municipal lawyer who has um looked at things and and made the amendments in the current uh versions of the council's repeal and the um annual salary repeal.

So I feel very confident that we can repeal things. the the writing of it actually states that the salary is going to be set at a certain level so it does not go to zero. Um and I guess I um want to just summarize what I heard in the last part of the ordinance meeting which is uh in response to councelor UN's question.

It sounds like there are various two laws. So one law, state law, says that you can the council can write an ordinance that raises the salary in the next calendar year. And then there's the state conflict of interest law which says you cannot do anything in the same term.

You can't change your salary up or down in the same term. So, um, that there had never been like a a legal decision. It sounds like you worked with the state ethics commission, came up with this solution of um an kind of administrative deferral.

Um, but the raises stay on the books. They're they're still ordinances. That's why we're trying to repeal them. It may be a strange question to say that I would like to put these things in writing, but there are for people who have been clearly and carefully looking at this issue, concerns about uh pension spiking, you know, questions about because of the timing of this happening right after the election, putting into this uh raise and then having three more years in the term.

that would raise the pension uh significantly. So, the reason why I'm trying to get these things in writing is because this process has left a lot of people um feeling very doubtful about the whole process.

So, we have these ordinances on the books. There's been an administrative deferral. We're trying to work everything out now. Um, but I just want to say uh I wanted to clarify that that I am really trying to get this correct and I'm really want us to do things in a very open way that involves the public and that includes data from other communities that are similar.

So that's what I want to say. Um, and I think that we will uh return to this issue, I guess, again, and I'm hoping that we can do that on um June 22nd um when we are hopefully going to do another ordinance committee meeting.

But, um I think respond please. I think very briefly you can respond. I'm not sure that we want to go back and forth with this right now. Well, I'm not going back and forth. I'm responding. Um, first of all, if you're consulting with someone outside the body and you don't identify who that is, you don't provide what their input is, that's a violation of the open meeting law because you are accepting information that's influencing how you're acting.

So, what I suggest is you put your attorney in touch with me and we'll talk. I don't know if the attorney you're talking to is a municipal lawyer or not. Um, but I'm happy to talk to him or her and then you just asked for the first time for a written summary of what had gone on.

So, I am happy to provide that. I have prior existing memos that went out to the first council um about how you implement a pay raise and what you do. We'll provide you those as exhibits to a summary memo.

Um, I'm not sure what I'm going to get from state ethics, but I will put in writing my version of events and I may be able to use some letters because they neither admit nor deny when they're conducting an investigation.

And in fairness to the counselors who were in office last term, um, they have confidentiality uh, rights that I I can't unilaterally wave. So, but I'm happy to explain all that. And whoever's telling you about the word repeal, I would just like to repeat to to the other counselors who I presume have not heard this, but you will be making a very significant error and try to understand or explain from councelor McKe in June when you talk.

Um, have someone explain why repeal versus delete is important. All right? Or repeal versus um could use voided, but and then we'll get something. I mean, if there's this much concern about the amount that's on the books and and its effect on the um potential uh retirement of Mayor Ko.

I mean, I'll I'll have to check with Pierre uh rather uh Quinsey Retirement Board what they might have to say and I'll talk to the mayor about what he might have to say. He came before you and he explained to you why he was leaving that number on the books.

Council Mahoney began her statement by saying that he said he wants to he believes that's the value of the office. The prior city council agreed that was the value of the office. That's why he was leaving it there, but he deferred.

But I'm happy to get you that information. This is first time whether it's the result of what occurred at the end of the earlier meeting or not but the first time you asked for it and I'll make sure you have it for distribution to the committee.

Thank you very much. Thank you. All right. I'm going to recess this uh ordinance committee. I mean what is the word? Recess or finish it. Yeah. Recess. Thanks. All right, we're going to reconvene the city council meeting.

And next up on the agenda. Yes, uh, Madam President, uh, item number two, legal update, Eastern Azerine College. Thank you, city Timonss. Good evening, Madame President and members of the council. Um, tonight I want to review just to make certain there's no misconceptions uh the letter of intent uh the deadlines we're facing and uh how they came about.

And I'll begin. Someone spoke during the uh open mic portion and talked about an opportunity. Well, that's exactly what this ENC purchase represents. An extraordinary opportunity for the city of Quinsey um with regard to the land owned by Eastern Nazarene right in the heart of Ward 5.

Uh the way this came about is I understand things and I don't understand all of it fully but there was a prior deal that we were all told about but the specifics of it we weren't made aware of as far as an alumnest of uh ENC who sought to purchase the campus and had plans for the development.

the mayor immediately pushed back indicating there's going to be an issue with any plans of development and the uh the gentleman the proposed buyer he tried to pencil out the deal and it just never worked.

We don't know the exact amount that it was under agreement for but it was considerably higher. was north of 35 million as I understand things but again because this is a private transaction um we don't get particular details now what then happened is the property sat for a bit and Mayor Ko as you're all aware announced in February that he wanted to look at acquiring the property well he had developed an excellent relationship with the president of ENC based in Quinzy and um engaged in conversations that Mr.

Walker knows a lot more about than do I. And um that started sometime after uh the March uh or February uh announcement. And one of the issues was that while there was an appetite here in Quinsey to sell, uh, the property owners are actually based down, I believe it's in Georgia, but they're out of state.

There's a trustee board of trustees who handle properties around the country for for the Nazarene community. And um that's who has been negotiating this deal using a law firm in Boston. And um after some negotiation, the mayor came up with an agreed upon agreed upon price and then referred me to their attorney.

They're using a local lawyer, Frank Marinelli, based in Brainree. And um Frank and I worked with the attorney based in Boston to develop this letter of intent. ENC wanted to go to a purchase and sale agreement.

This is one of the very difficult issues of being a municipality involved in real estate transactions. Number one, um you know, everything takes long, but number two, you have certain certain things that have to be done at our level that are hard to impress upon the private sector.

Um, I told attorney Marinelli that we could not go right to a PNS because we first had to get the approval of this body under chapter 40 section 14. Let me recite a statute tonight. That's the one I was prepared on.

Chapter 40, section 14 governs how a municipality acquires real estate. Chapter 40 section 15 governs how a municipality disposes of real estate. So we in order to acquire the property um we had have to bring it before this body and get the approval not only for the acquisition but the funding of the acquisition and I explained that uh to ENC's attorney.

So they came back to us and said the only way we'll do this deal is if we set deadlines and those deadlines involve both authorizing the acquisition of the campus and authorizing the payment for the acquisition.

They weren't going to allow us like happens in real estate transactions where you sign a PNS and then you chase a mortgage with the bank. They weren't going to allow for that because they're under I'm just going to say severe well I meant to not say severe but they're under economic pressures.

They've been carrying the campus for quite some time now and it's uh at a very significant debt. So they said that if we can't tell them we're moving forward. if we can't produce the chapter 40 section 14 approval um then they're not going to wait around and and one of the ironic thing that's hap things that has happened is that due to the publicity attendant to this entire exercise um there have been one or two offers and I know attorney Marinelli was going to try to make it tonight um but he did authorize me to say that um they have other people in the queue now because our price has been announced and now people understand that they can get the property for the the amount that has been stated.

So this letter of intent it has that amount the 21 million and um it's got hallmark dates. We had to present to the council the orders and we presented two, one for the acquisition, one for the funding on or before May 4th.

To get things started, we had to commit to obtaining approvals on or before June 15th, the date of this council's last meeting. I went over the dates with um Attorney Marinelli uh following May 4th of when the council meetings were and uh we have um tonight's date and then we have two dates in June.

So those are locked in here. And what has happened is ENC has said if you read uh paragraph 4 once it's approved they have to go to the attorney general. So there'd be a little more time that would pass after our approval.

That'll delay an actual closing. But um the fact of the matter is if we don't obtain the required approval then they're going to move along and there was a I think a misconception one I heard one counselor indicate perhaps that there's a right for an extension.

Well, the only extension they're contemplating is if we get the approval and we're ready to go um that something happens before the proposed closing date of um July 10th. So, but this is dates hallmarks set by Eastern Nazarine College.

It's based on their issues, their financial issues. And I think everyone's familiar with the fact the college has been closed and they've been carrying the building uh buildings I should say the campus for quite some time.

So the mayor stepped in and initiated discussion at the time of an opportunity uh or rather in order to generate an opportunity and um now we have one a really once in a generation opportunity and I'm concerned here that you know we're trying to work together to make this happen.

Um but I get frequent inquiries from council Marinelli about what's going on. He's he's reading the papers, too. So, I'm very hopeful that we can work together over the next couple of weeks um and into June.

We've worked hard on much of this, but these dates and this letter of intent have uh significant meaning. They're deadlines set by ENC. Um that's really all I have on the letter of intent. And I think that um Mr.

Walker's prepared on other issues, but I'm happy to answer any questions on the letter of intent. We're going to open it up to questions. No questions. Okay. Councilor Ry, uh, do you have any information on any assessment values of the property?

Uh, yes. Would you be able to provide that to us? Well, at at some point I will. Okay. Um, absolutely. And and we've talked about that because that's got to be part of the data that you review. Uh, if you look online, the city of Quinzy has the property assessed at $58 million.

So, I can tell you that we would be in trouble. Um cuz the issue about the pro the sale being approved by the attorney general is that the attorney general is reviewing this from the perspective that ENC is a nonprofit and they don't want to have ENC cheat whatever interests are within that.

The AG is the overlord across the Commonwealth of all nonprofits. And anytime a nonprofit sells real property, it has to be approved by the attorney general's office. Now, if we present a purchase sale agreement for 21 million and they see 58 million on the books of Quinsey, well, there's there's going to be a problem.

However, we did have an appraisal done third party neutral and there are other issues here um as far as you know the property goes and I think that uh the council for ENC feels very comfortable that they'll obtain approval but we start at 58 million and then we'll disclose more.

Um we have to work through that with ENC as well. Okay, just one more question. What about carrying costs? Do you have the carrying cost available? We're working on that as well. Um, we've had a visit with their, you know, I don't know what you'd call this person, but um, he's been managing the property since it closed down and he took us through all the buildings.

He's pointed out a lot and there's been an assessment done of things. So, we we are aware of that issue and we'll be presenting on that whenever we have a finance committee meeting. Okay. All right. Thank you.

Sure. Anybody else? Council Riley. Sure. You got to raise your hand. Thank you. Um, so a couple of things that I'd like to state. Um, first of all, this this isn't a surprise that Eastern Nazarine College is in the position that they're in.

When we purchased the building that ended up becoming the D Christopharro Center, you know, that was an infusion of cash for the for the university, the college. Um, and like so many small liberal arts colleges, they've all been folding left and right.

So, this this isn't this isn't something that should be any surprise to anybody. Um, I I personally didn't get the letter of intent until the day after the council meeting. I believe it may have been a hard copy, may have been included in our late day packages.

Again, this is where we do get a lot of information at the last minute. I didn't see it until the Tuesday after our council meeting. So, um, and really didn't didn't get more information until it was in the, um, Patriot Ledger.

Um, I would like to see us have a site visit. Um, I would like to know, um, Solicitor Timmons, what role does the attorney general's office play in this process? They are reviewing um the the nonprofit Eastern Nazarine Colleg's sale of its primary major asset in Massachusetts and they will either approve it as a transaction that meets whatever their criteria are or uh they may have an issue with it because of the price.

I'm not sure. Thank you. Um, so I I do know from speaking with Mr. Walker that the administration is ready to bring forward a little more comprehensive uh proposal and plans and details and I think that's what we need in order to be able to um really ask the questions we need to ask.

So I I'm prepared as the finance chair to to call that meeting um provided we can get the the information by I think we said May 20 27th. Um, and then that would be in advance of our May 28th deadline for a public meeting notice and we could meet um prior to the city council meeting on June 1st if everyone's agreeable to that.

I'm not sure what the issues with distribution of uh material is. Um, but we I'm I know that we're putting together material that will get to you. I talked to Mr. Walker. We have to be careful about the timing and we just need a scheduled hearing and then boom, but it it'll all go out as to everybody at the same time perhaps with supplements.

So, we may do it incrementally, but it'll be to everybody. And then there's another question that we're discussing about um how much we can post online because some of this might be confidential and that's something I'm dealing with attorney Marinelli on.

Well, we could certainly meet in exe executive session if there's a need to review information that the finance committee would be privy to that would not be public. So, you can get the information, but we wouldn't be sh I'm just trying to set the public's uh expectations.

No, I understand. I understand that negotiations are, you know, once you put it out there. But, um, it's a little bit of a chicken and an egg because if if the administration is ready to present a comprehensive package and a comprehensive plan that hopefully answers some of the questions that everybody has, then I'm more than willing to call the finance committee meeting.

Thank you. Thank you. Anybody else with any questions? Going once. So, I have a couple of questions. Sorry. No, Council Deon. Um, thank you, Madam President. Um just to elaborate a little bit um Mr. Timmons or even Mr.

Walker could you answer um the 225 million how many votes is that going to take for this body? It's a 2/3 vote. So six votes. Yes. Okay. So this is a voting game. This is about votes up here, right? Well, hopefully it's so hopefully it's about supporting supporting Yes.

a generational project. Hey, um just a general comment and then I'm going to ask you a few questions. Um I've been around this campus quite a while and I've talked to a lot of neighbors and a butters of this particular property.

It stands in all of Ward 5. Um we have to give the residents of that particular area that abuted the most preference, I guess I could say. And then it goes out to the entire city of Quinsey, all the residents.

So, I think you have a two-tier situation. You have a tier of there's folks that abut this property like folks have heard tonight. You have a ward counselor that represents that particular area. You have three atlarges that represent the entire area and then you have votes up here for other people.

I think um tonight a little bit of an open mind about having these talks about the purchase of 225. Is that correct? Is for the correct? That's the the requested um finance order. Okay. Um I always think back really of what would former counselors do up here?

What would they say on a non-biased opinion non-bias either or not against this not against that how would they would feel up here? And the three people that come to mind and mine is Joe Finn that would sit next to me Brian Palucci used to be across from me and and and Chuck Failen.

Those three particular counselors had been on the council for previous councils. They had served with a previous group of people before them. The Dan Ramandis, the John Keenan's, these all these different different particular counselors.

What would they do in this particular situation? What's going on here? And just a general statement to the counselors that we'll get in more deliberations, but please keep an open mind that and I'm going to ask this question is I believe that the administration or the mayor has got to come back to the city council for almost all the particular items that need to be purchased.

Is that correct or is that incorrect? if they purchase the 225, where does the council stand in this particular item um after it's purchased or if it's purchased? Well, that'll I don't know if you want to take that one, but that's something that's going to be evolving obviously as we go cuz there's a lot of um there's a lot that we're looking at and you know the specifics of how we go about implementing becomes an issue.

Oh, hold on. I'm not I'm not done yet. Hold on. Um, some of the items that have come up to me from the particular people um of the the residents that live in that particular area um they love the library.

They want to see obviously we've talked about public use. Um we've also talked about the houses that are on the property that the city can make back. I think also the fields um for open space and to have public use to use and then possibly Quinsey College.

I mean these are the main items that I've been hearing on the residents in that particular area. And then the biggest thing is the flooding issues. Um how do you mitigate the flooding issues that are going on in that particular area for the abutters that live in that particular area?

Uh those are some of the biggest concerns that I've seen from residents of that particular area. And if we gain control of it, the city of Quinsey, we can kind of dictate how that goes. Now, the biggest number one question that everybody's hearing in the city is as long as we're in the red.

I mean, in the green, we're not going to go into the red where if the purchase of 225 happens that we stay in the green. Now, I've seen all these different orders come in from the city council, and this is particularly to the new city councilors.

All the reasons why you would vote no on this. I'm seeing it. Oh, well, we have this going on and the bond rating this. If we go in the green on this, it's a no-brainer. It's something that the city should do for the residents of the city that if we go in the green and we're not going to go in a red where we don't lose any money, I don't see why we couldn't vote for this as a council.

So, this is the body that we sit in today. I'm going to listen to all of your comments and opinions, but I believe talking to a lot of different people that we would be in the green if we purchase this.

I mean, he just talked about being assessed at $58 million, 225. It's it's it's less than half of what it's going to be done. And we're in the driver's seat now as a city. We can give some of this land.

We're almost the massive developer now. that. But getting back to the questions because I know President Mahoney wants me to get back to the press uh back to the pressing questions is but this gives us into discussion for the future and I think it was just me just hearing and seeing all these different orders on here on why we can't vote for it.

And I'm I'm in the position to think that this is a benefit for the city and to take a good hard look at having an open mind. And this is to the to the to the counselors on here right now. Um the other consideration maybe I can ask you Mr.

Timmons is ADA compliance. I know that maybe some of the building is not under an ADA compliance with some of the stuff. Are we going to have to put it up to ADA compliance? Is there is there a factor in there for grandfathering it in?

H how do we as a city get to that level? Can you Well, more of it than you might imagine has ADA compliance okay implementations but um you mentioned grandfathered that's kind of I guess that's a the layman's term for it but it all depends on what buildings we work on and the scope of the work that's done if any because that's that's another thing I've had a lot of people in the particular area ask about that and That's why I'm asking you.

I've had a lot of I mean nine out of 10 people that I talked to says it's a good investment for the city. It's it's a good investment upon we have in control as a as as a city to to kind of almost you know be in the green.

So that's my pitch to my fellow counselors that I think this is a good thing to do. Thank you. Thank you very much. I'm not sure if councelor um if council Jacobs or councelor Cuber and I saw both of us.

So go to council Jacobs first. Yeah. Um, thank you for coming here tonight and reading that letter to us going through it. Um, you know, I we're $1.8 billion in debt. See it every day. Hear it every day.

That's what I hear every day. $1.8 billion in debt. And this administration is coming to us for $22.5 million with really no plan. Okay. I mean, I've read the I've read semblance of a plan in the newspaper and it sounds great and we had a, you know, a meeting at Central Middle School where people got to put their ideas in because this was supposed to be communitydriven, but even now as they listen to podcasts and read in the newspaper, oh, you know, we really want that library to be the Wallace branch of the public library.

And you know what? I'm all for that. I say it around my family table all the time to my own detriment. I I want that library to be the Wallist Library. And that was what was put up and talked about at that meeting at Central Middle School and that's what was in the paper.

But then on the podcast, you know what? That building's too big. We're just going to do the first floor. That's going to be the library. So all of a sudden, like the project's already getting a little wishwashy.

I see some we're very gonna respond to you, but I'm not I'm not I mean that's fine, but it's already kind of wishwashy, right? I know that there's the residences, right? It would be great if they sell for seven or $9 million also, you know, fabulous, but you know, part of that million and a half overage is to do some type of study to see, you know, what can be used for what this can be used for that.

And what happens when we discover that, oh, you know, actually, we can't sell this house or that house because that's where this is going to go. And then all of a sudden that $9 million dwindles down to like two and a half.

Okay. Um, you know, I I'm just looking for more of a plan. Uh, we just had a um oversight subcommittee meeting last week where we went over a slew of properties. Again, a lot of them were in the downtown, but a bunch of properties that the city's holding.

I mean, and you know, we talk about working together here. And you know, I would love to get to a yes, but what are we going to sell in order to get to that yes? What do what do we what are we willing to put on the table besides the debt on the backs of everybody who lives in Quinsey?

Why don't we sell some of the debt that we've already put on their backs? Maybe that will make it more palatable for the residents of Quinzy and more palatable to members of this council. Well, if I may respond, you heard your colleague, Councelor O'Reilly, say that she's going to schedule a hearing, correct?

Yep. And that's the hearing when we'll be presenting the information for the first time. So, I'd hope that um I I'm not quite sure uh we we what you were saying how it relates to the fact that we haven't had our hearing yet, but I hope that you'll be attentive during the hearing because you'll hear a lot of the answers you're talking about.

Yeah. Um definitely. So, but the only thing is what I want to hear at that hearing is not, oh, we haven't thought about what properties we're going to sell. What I want to hear is what property this administration is ready to sell to make this happen for the people who live on Copley Street.

I have family that lives on Copley Street. So I when we have that meeting, I don't want to hear, oh, you know, we got to sit back. We got to talk about this. You better come here with that available to us.

What properties are we going to sell? Are we selling the Monroe building? Are we going to sell the properties down on Sea Street in Bay View A? we selling those because with time is of the essence and you guys have put us under this clock that we have to have it done by June 15th.

No, no, let's be clear. This is an opportunity presented to us from Eastern Nazarene College and it's their clock. We're all under time pressures here. Number one. Number two, I'm not certain what is upsetting you, but I would ask you to wait till the first meeting of the finance committee.

See what we have to say and you can have your questions at that time if we haven't fully explained. Okay, I'm just going to say one last thing. So again, we're up against a clock here set by, you know, ENC and this agreement.

Okay. And we want to make an an expeditious, you know, uh, ruling on this if we're going to purchase it or not. So, in an effort to not run out of time, I'm asking the administration to come to the table prepared to let us know what properties at that meeting, not so when that meeting happens, we're like, oh, we have to go back and talk about that.

What properties are you willing to put on the table in that portfolio? When's the meeting? Oh, hasn't been said. Well, whenever the meeting, we shouldn't have to wait. We should know that date. These are the properties we're willing to sell.

The council sets the date, counselor, and I'm not certain who it is. Perhaps I did not sound well, I don't know. I don't know who it is who's speaking to you about what properties we're going to sell, but of course, we're going to have a plan to sell the properties.

It's what we've been talking about. It's almost all we've been talking out about definitively and all of this. I don't know if there's some way for intercession here. We want to wait for your meeting.

Right. Well, I just want to say again when you're saying the properties being sold, I feel like you're alluding to the properties at ENC that are going to be sold. I mean properties that we currently own already that are not part of the ENC.

Well, we'll be talking about the ENC project because that's the one we're trying to get done. That councelor Hubley. Thank you, Madam Chair. Um, so ENC is in Ward 5, but I still hear from a lot of people about the ENC because of the news and because of the uh different forums that the city held to gather input from uh constituents and when we have the to be scheduled to be scheduled finance meeting to get a greater understanding of what the plan is and what the dynamics of it is um I'm asking for a couple of things.

So, a number of people have reached out to me who are a little bit more savvy or understand a little bit better about the financing side of real estate development. I've been in the nonprofit uh affordable housing space for about eight years now and I've learned a lot, but I I don't understand all the intricacies of the financing as well as the um implications of zonings and other overlays and so forth.

So, I think if we're going to have a presentation, it would be helpful for to to have it include a couple of things. And so, well, a couple of things within one within one thing. Some people have talked to me about um that this property is in the range for 40B development.

That's not something I'm as familiar with. Um so, it would be good to understand, you know, what the implications of that be that would be if the buyer is not Quinsey and someone else and and what could what other could be the ramifications of that be?

What what would they have capabilities of doing? Uh further there is something I actually do have a decent understanding of and that's uh something that people have come to me about which is the do amendment.

When I was uh CEO of a nonprofit, we looked at doing a expansion of our campus and in my mind I had it set that okay we needed certain offsets from property lines. There's certain height restrictions and so forth, but it's my understanding that um if it's a nonprofit that ends up purchasing some some or all of the property.

I mean, I was I was told by my real estate lawyer that I could build right up to the property line and I wasn't subject to a lot of the zoning rules that uh other a for profit would, you know, would develop would be.

So, anyway, this is the stuff I learned over the years that may or may not be accurate, but I think it would be helpful to be able to compare and contrast what would be capable for the city to do if we if the city acquired it and then sold off pieces of it or or developed pieces of it.

um versus if a private nonprofit or private for-profit bought it, what are the different op things that could happen on this land? because I think the neighbors would be very interested in understanding what the ramifications could be if it's not the city that's purchasing the property and then controlling and then further I if there are things that the city if we purchase the property and then sell portions of it is there something that we can do in that sale that could further restrict what the buyer could then do on that property and the these questions are all around just kind of understanding what the potential scenarios are if or if not we do purchase the land and and then maybe sub subsequently sell some of it away.

So, um happy to talk afterwards if if that didn't completely make sense just to kind of refine the question. No, it made sense. Okay. Okay. Great. Understood. All right. That's that's all I have. Thank you very much.

Thank you very much, council. Councelor McKe. Hi, solicitor. Um so you were mentioning that there exists um information and that um it it it will be incrementally probably delivered to the council based on you know when hearings are scheduled.

I'm assuming that that means you know when open meeting law requires 48 hours notice. I'm maybe I'm wrong, but um I guess I'm I'm I'm unhappy with the um idea that we may not be getting all of the information that exists even if it exists now and that that it will be delivered at some point later.

Um because for example the letter of um interest or intent um I had requested that earlier when when I first heard about this um deal that that was come to but we didn't get that um until the meeting and hadn't had a chance to read it and then it didn't come in until email the next get what I'm sorry the letter the LOI.

Right. So that was that was done in April, but we didn't get it until the evening of May 4th and um in as a print out and then by email the next day. So, I guess I'm thinking, you know, if we are to work together to look at this, and I I think we do really want to carefully look at this, it would be helpful to get as much of information as exists um such as the information that councelor Riley um Ryan asked for uh as early as possible.

That's well um this has been a little bit of a debate with uh Mr. Walker and I. But what what I said and I'm sorry I wasn't clear is that once a date for the finance committee meeting is set and we know that date now we can be releasing information to the finance committee.

Um and some of it we'll be able to post online. But what I meant was that to the extent maybe not all the information is prepped for presentation or whatever um we may release things incrementally but you'll definitely have it.

Council Riley talked about a deadline before the meeting and um and I'm sure there are going to be questions at the first meeting where there'll be supplementary information. So, there's going to be a constant uh sharing and flow of information.

To the extent the letter of intent was delayed, that was because of me waiting for it to come back from the person who signed it down in uh well, all I can say is I I don't know who Dr. Bowser is. He says he's the Eastern Nazarine College chair of the board of trustees, but I'm not sure where he's located.

I was just waiting for his to come back. We signed first and then sent it off to the seller, which is the typical manner in which something flows. And um once we had it, it was immediately released. I I don't know what happened as far as folks not receiving it.

Yeah, it's looked like it was dated in April, but we didn't get it until um the night of the meeting. But um you had mentioned in the ordinance committee meeting that um you know we the council you would like to get information questions early.

One of the things that I asked for on April 6th was um you know this list of property transactions that that the city had made so that we could try to make sense of how you know the track record of the city for managing properties.

Um and and because in the charter and in state law it says that, you know, if we ask for that 7 days in advance, we should be able to get it. That didn't come in uh for weeks until we we had the meeting um basically last week.

And so I guess I'm just saying like I understand it does can take some time to put these things together, but we are trying to we really want to make an informed decision. So um you know when we ask for things it would be helpful to to get them much earlier than what what we are well a history of discrete real estate transactions from all over the city for the past 10 years that did take a while to track down and I was part of that trying to find certain transactions track you know when they were recorded etc.

This is a closed campus and we know exactly what we're talking about. With a letter of intent, you got a list of all the buildings. You've got all that information already. So, and we're going to build off of that.

Council Ash, you thank you um Madam President. Um the just so everyone's clear, just so people at home, you know, that might not have the agenda where this is a legal update on the letter of intent. Correct.

Okay. Um I I do think to councelor Hub's point um you know being able to discuss with our constituents 40B and do implications the do amendment implications that will be helpful at the at the presentation.

Sure. Um, I I don't I don't I guess I'm confused as to why everybody's we're like litigating the merits of the of the of the issue and I want to make sure that I'm at the right meeting because this says legal update ENC on the letter of intent.

Well, I share your confusion. I can give you a quick 40B and do amendment answer. Um, the Dover amendment, it's it's that's that's the name for a particular statute that applies only to the use of the property, but a community is still entitled to dimensionally regulate.

It's why I grimaced a little bit about building right up to the lot line because setbacks are still available. So the Dover amendment would um in this particular instance it would basically mean the same sort of use educational use or perhaps a church or something.

Um but we could dimensionally regulate and a 40B project. Quinsey is well positioned with regard to 40B projects. Um uh we've because of where we are numbers wise um we have the ability to control a little more on a local level what 40B does.

Basically if you don't have a the minimum amount of housing assessed for your community then the state can override whatever local zoning decisions are made. Well we're in pretty good shape with 40B. the the big issue at at ENC is um the the the flood plane level.

Um a lot of the campus is below level 11, which is where you start to see water issues. Um, and the big the the big negative is that that beautiful little arboritum that's sitting there on Elmav next to the church and the library and everything, that area is pretty much the only part of the campus that's all exclusively above uh level 11.

So, one of the comments made by our uh building in uh well, the director of inspectional services was the first place someone would come in if they're privately developing this is right here and they trees gone and whatever going in and and we certainly don't want to see that.

Thank you. But I'm happy to and I can also talk to you, you know, you privately about any of the zoning stuff. Happy to do that. Thank you, Council Yuan. Just a quick comment following up with councelor Dona's comment about open mandate.

I believe everyone in this body is very open-minded to this NC um purchasing and we are not only open-minded to this project we are also open-minded to some other big projects which need a bounded like school repairing and seaw wall replacement that's why I bring up this order and want to request the administration to provide two year two fiscal year capital bonding plan and the financial projections for major projects.

Yeah, I one sentence but before we even get this information and start to discussion councelor Dona already have come up to the conclusion that this order is for blocking the C purchase. I'm I'm wondering if this kind of thinking is open-minded.

That's it. Anybody else? So, I I do have a couple of things that I want to mention um and and and and comment. So, we read about ANC in the newspaper in the Patriot ledger. The letter of intent was said that the counselors had received the letter of intent which we did not receive until the following Monday.

Some of us got it in our packages and some of us got it emailed. The problem with that is you keep saying you want us to work together but we're not working together. You're dropping press releases on this and that's fine.

That's how you want to work. Now, let me finish Jim. So, the other problem I have with that is on May 5th, May 4th, the mayor of the city of Quinsey came before us to give us the budget. Correct. And on May 5th, Moody's downgraded us.

No mention to any of us as we're doing finance. No mention to anybody here. The only thing we figured out was because we had a debt meeting that we were not $1.6 billion in debt, but we were $1.8 billion in debt.

And further, we don't know really how we're calculating diff. But then Moody's downgrades us. So what do we have done? The administration through the city of Quinsey's taxpayers does a podcast that is out on the ears on the website being promoted letting everybody know that in a 15-second clip if the council doesn't do the right thing.

Oo, it could be do or 40B. We're not talking about it. The general public is hearing about that because it's the one message that's getting out from city hall. Now, we have everybody here in this council, and we want to be open-minded, but we also had a meeting in regards to the Monroe building.

The Monroe building, which was purchased at a time with CO money, which somebody said earlier, COVID money is free money. It doesn't cost you anything because CO money was given to the city. Not true.

CO money is federal money. It comes to us and we're all paying the price for it right now. But that's what it was used for. you is meant to be used to help the people within the communities they lived in.

But instead, we were buying real estate with it rather than buying a lot of things. We could have been buying fire trucks, which I think we bought like a quarter of a fire truck with the the um co money, but further we bought that building with the intentions and it was a press release again in the Quinsey Sun in the Patriot Ledger.

The building was purchased for Quinsey College. Quinsey College needed a home and it needed to go there so it didn't have to pay rent because in the meantime the taxpayers of the city of Quinsey again this administration didn't bother to tell us when we had a budget review that $2.5 million was in the red because Quinsey College couldn't afford to pay their health insurance.

So now the city of Quinsey's paying for the health insurance, paying for their pension obligations. No problem. That's not a $1.8 billion that we're talking about. But further, let's go a little further.

Guess what's not going to the Monroe building? Quinsey College. Quinsey College doesn't have to go there because I guess they're doing better because they're going to be part of the NC purchase. We're going to have them take over the gym in the fields.

That's what was told. I believe that's one of the things that was told that the, you know, the Quinsey College will take that over. I'd like to know how much they're going to pay for that. Are they paying for their health insurance and their pensions that we've been floating for them for a while?

Because that's a problem because as we add all these things up, that's where we're standing. $1.8 8 billion in debt. We're being told we have to make this decision because it's a real estate deal. And in the past, we've been told all the deals are always the same way.

We have to make this deal because if we don't do it, it could go away. That's a pretty I can go back several times over. Msina Lot. The performing arts center was supposed to go to the Msina lot. Performing arts is now going to the going to the Monroe building.

Oh, wait a second. We have the Cove Center now. It might go to the Cove Center. It's really hard to keep up with where we're doing things. But what we do know is we have a ton of of buildings and land that we acquired over the last 10 years.

And you you yourself just said that took us a while to figure out because we had to go back and look at that. That tells me that we're not very organized in the city of Quinsey. I don't know how that could have taken you that long to do.

You're purchasing things. I you know, you think it's funny, but you I don't think it's funny at all. Yeah, you're laughing. All right. So, now let me go back to this this very simple thing. So, we have a pattern in the city of Quinsey.

We buy and purchase things. We announce concepts that the vision's promoted, right? This is pretty much what we're doing. Visions promoted, but then there's no real concrete plan. There's no timelines.

There's no measurable outcomes for these things. And everything consistently changes. But the one thing that's for sure, our debt is growing, and it's growing rapidly. And it has grown tremendously in six months.

And there's no change in that. What this council needs, and I've heard what um councelor Riley said, is a detailed financial projections, your operational plans, how are you going to be able to pay for it?

Just like we talked about the Monroe building, we think we're breaking even, but you know, we cost us $15 million to buy it. Timelines, benchmarks, risk assessments, and a contingency plan. If all of a sudden the projected revenues do not materialize, who's building it?

How are we doing it? Will there be a committee that's put together? Will it be building? Will it be the building department that's building it? We don't know. We don't know anything. What we do know is we have until June 15th to make a decision.

And you want to work together except for we have to read everything in the newspaper. And by the way, again, downgraded by the second agency and probably more to come. So, I think it's very reasonable for the councilors up here to be concerned about that debt number because it's rapidly growing.

And we are bringing projects in oneoff rather than looking at them as a whole, which is what you should be doing. What's the impact going to be to the financials of the city of Quinsey? And by the way, it's not in the green, it's in the black.

If you're in the red, you're in trouble. And in the black means you're you're you're solvent. So you can say that, but I'm going to say something again. Diff, I explained it the other night. The diff goes out currently, right now, the diff, as we stand today with everything that we have, the revenues come in until 2044.

The debt exercise goes out to 2067. I've asked for those things. I've not received it. I asked in a public hearing for it from the assessors. Haven't received it. Fine. We ask and we don't get things.

And we're told, well, it's a little harder than you think. But the way it seems to be being calculated seems to me that we don't have a diff. And I'm very concerned about that because again, the taxpayers of the city of Quincy who were promised that none of this is going to cost them anything.

We can't prove that right now. But what we do know is that we have $1.8 billion worth of debt growing rapidly and we have to have a decision by June 15th. And by the way, can you keep an open mind? I always have an open mind, Jim.

I do. But what I'm hearing right now tonight makes me very concerned for the taxpayers of the city of Quinsey, because we also were promised that that downtown wasn't going to cost us anything. And I don't have any numbers for that.

So, I am concerned. And you know what? In 2067, one thing I can definitely tell you is I'm not going to be here. You're not going to be here. And neither is probably half of us that are up here are going to be here.

Some of you are very young. You might be still here. But the reality of it is it's going to take decades. Decades. And there's no magic ball that tells us that we're going to be in good shape. We might be in good shape today, but at any time things can go bad.

And do we have a rainy day fund? Oh, that's right. No, we don't because we used $35 million last year to lower the taxes. Just a statement. So, that's where I'm at. No comments needed. You don't have to say anything back.

That's what I'm concerned. So, if you can have all those things for um councelor Riley, which I can't be here on the 27th, so I would really like to be at that meeting, but I cannot be here on the 27th.

We get the information. That's fine. We get the information on the 27th. That's great. But hopefully we'll get it before the newspapers do because we are trying to work with you. Thank you. Well, coun counselor, I there's a pattern here that department heads come to the podium, try to share information, and end up being bered.

I'm sorry that the that the um mayor's press conferences are causing such consternation. I don't have control over those. I'd like I hope we're going to do a better job releasing information on the ENC thing because we're all under time pressure here and we're going to do that.

But we're going to be talking about ENC, not um you know the federal funding of the Monroe building which we can all talk about and and other issues. We're going to focus on ENC because I I don't need to go back on this.

I that was a statement that was a statement that I said. May I respond without being interrupted, please? Right. I you should at least allow for response without interruption. I know it's difficult, but because I just stood here and listened, I laughed at the fact that you didn't understand how much work was involved in getting the deeds and distinguishing between eminent domain takings and the land that was purchased.

And people worked earnestly to get that information. a couple of nods understanding. I'm not certain why you don't understand that, but um you acted like we didn't have the information when in fact we did have the information.

It just took a little bit of time to assemble and you know this $1.8 billion debt gong that has to end because it's very misleading. The issue is the debt service number. That's the issue. All right. No one here would own a home.

My wife and I wouldn't have been able to buy a home because it cost a big big number that exceeded annual salaries. We're not sitting, you know, with $1.8 billion in debt. We're sitting with a $1.8 8 billion debt schedule that was explained to everybody at a hearing when we had everybody here prior to kind of launching the back end of the year, the budget and the ENC discussion.

We had several experts here who were basically cross-examined. There was not a collaborative effort to discern what's going on with debt in the city of Quinsey at that meeting. Um uh we had the preeminent lawyer in the Commonwealth.

We have an investor who's been in front of city councils for 20 years here. And they explain things and they explain numbers. And that's what we're going to do at the first finance hearing. We're going to explain.

We have a little program here about using bands which require interestonly payments. We understand that. and how we're going to be able to reduce what the actual amount that we bond to acquire. So, I just asked for everyone, you offered out an open mind.

It didn't sound it up until the point when you offered it, but I look forward to the meeting that council Riley's going to hold. So, I'm going to say one Thank you very much. I'm going to wrap this up and this is going to be the end of this.

So, just an explanation for home because we just did said you just got done saying that it's the debt schedule and it's how we borrow money and you wouldn't be able to afford a house. Well, what I can tell you is if I went to buy a house today and I said, "Hey, you know what I do?

I have to go to my bank to make sure that they're going to say okay to this and when I went to my bank and they saw that I had two major downgrades in my my financials. I wouldn't be getting that loan." But here's the funny thing.

They get it's not the bank, it's us nine who get to decide that. It's us nine that get to decide that. And we're the bank and we have 1.8 billion. I don't know how you want to cut it any different. It's $1.8 billion worth of debt and it's growing rapidly.

you have a lot of projects on the so if this is the major project great but if if if the Adams Presidential Library is a major project I don't know there was a lot of there's a lot of things on the wish list and I'm just trying to understand it so I thank you very much for your presentation I do take offense to the fact that you know the mayor's doing podcasts and forgetting that we have a movie downgrade and it didn't come from it's not for you to discuss that's my opinion I'm not asking for you to give me a comment on it and I'm not berating you I'm simply stating that every time you come up to the microphone you keep saying that you want to work together, but we have to send everything to you in email form.

We send things to you in email form. We expect things back. We don't get it back, but we don't berate you about that. So, I thank you very much, Mr. Tims. You're welcome. And I would invite you to go up and talk to the mayor.

He's in most Fridays. I'm not certain how many times you've been by to talk to him, but I think a one-on-one discussion would talk to him last week. He canceled meeting. I go every Wednesday. I've never canled on a meeting for the mayor.

So thank you. Moving forward, I have number three, Madam President 202684, order amending council rules 24 council meeting in 25 special meeting notice. So we put this on the agenda tonight because it was brought to my attention that um these rules um by the officer need we actually deliver them electronically in that form.

So we're looking to have those updated. So, we're going to refer this to the rules committee and advertise and I would need a motion on that if there's any questions too. Motion motion to move it to rules and advertise.

Motion by Miss McGee, seconded by Council Hubley on the motion. Anybody have questions? All right. All those in favor? I. Anybody against? We're moving that into rules. Next up, item number four, 2026 85 order requesting the administration to provide a two fiscal year capital bonding plan and financial projections for major projects.

Council, I would like to read it through so resident have a chance to listen it. Order number 2026-085 ordered. order requesting the administration to provide a two fiscal year capital bounding plan in the financial projections for major projects.

Whereas the city of Quincy currently carries approximately $1.8 8 billion in debt and residents continue to face increasing property tax burdens. And whereas the city's ability to issue additional bonds is limited.

And it is important for taxpayers and the city council to understand the overall financial picture before individual borrowing request are brought forward one by one. And whereas the residents deserve transparency regarding the administration's anticipated capital projects, borrowing plans, estimated grants, and projected financial obligations over the next two fiscal years so that the city may properly prioritize projects that are essential and urgent before proceeding with projects that may be less necessary at this time.

And whereas major infra major infrastructure projects such as seaw wall protection and the school building repairs should be prioritized over property acquisitions or projects for which the city currently has no clearly defined operational and financial plan.

Now therefore, be it ordered that the administration provide to the city council and the public a comprehensive overview of all major projects anticipated to require bound authorations during the next two fiscal years, including estimated project costs, anticipated grants or outside funding, estimated borrowing needs, projected timelines, and anticipated financial impacts on taxpayers.

And be it further ordered that the administration provide detailed information regarding the House Neck Seaw project including information from the 2020 Addens Shore and the House Neck Seaw War project including total project costs, grants received and the city bonding amounts as well as estimated costs, anticipated grants and estimated bonding needs for the currently proposed thous seaw wall projects and be it further ordered that regarding order 2026-079 and the city's participation in the Massachusetts school building authority accelerated repair program the department of public works provide estimated project costs estimated reimbursement percentage and the grants anticipated from MSBA BA estimated the local bonding requirements and the information regarding all MSBA projects undertaken by the city during the last 10 years including project costs, grants received, local borrowing amounts and the timeline for application approval and bound insurance.

And be it further ordered that the administration administration clarify whether renovations to Delisa Early learning center remain in consideration during the next two physical years and provide updated estimated project costs and anticipated funding sources.

And be it further ordered that regarding the previously discussed proposal to demolish the Monroe building and construct a performance center, the administration provided the estimated total project costs, anticipated grounds or outside funding and estimated bound authoration required should the project proceeds.

And be it further ordered that regarding the proposed 22.5 million dollar bond authoration for acquisition of Eastern Nethering College properties. The administration provide estimated demolition, renovation, maintenance and operational costs associated with the pro properties together with any proposed plans for future use of the campus and any anticipated borrowing beyond the acquisition cost itself.

And be it further ordered that the administration disclose any other major projects currently anticipated to require bound authorations during the next two physical years including estimated project costs, grants, timelines and borrowing needs or disclose if no clear plan currently exist.

And be it further ordered that the administration, including but not limited to the planning board and the department of public works, appear before the city council and present this information no later than June 15, 2026 in light of the limited time frame surrounding decisions related to the proposed acquisition of Eastern Nethering College properties.

so that residents and the city council may review and discuss the city's over all financial priorities in a transparent and meaningful manner before additional major borrowing uh major borrowing obligations are approved.

So since today we talked about the t a lot about the tight timeline of u decision about about about the decision making about the deadline is June 15. So I would like to ask uh uh administration if it's possible to present uh those information request in this order on at the city council meeting on June 1st.

That's two weeks away because usually every city and the town should have a five years uh capital plan but Quincy doesn't have one. Now we only ask two years physical plan the the two years the um financial financial projections.

So I think this doesn't ask much and uh and we you have two two weeks and it's also because the ENC decision is is in a time tighter time frame. So if administration is okay with the move the presentation date from June 15th to June 1st, I think it's it's reasonable for everyone give counselors and the resident at some time to discuss.

I'm asking the chief of through you, Madam President. This is a resolution that's before the body right now. Typically, the body acts on the resolution and it is received by the mayor. Uh when the mayor receives that, then we can talk about what's uh reasonable, what's practable, what's available in that time frame.

But until the mayor technically receives a resolution, nothing is in front of him. Um and again um we would need to take a look at this dive into it and uh figure out what's practical like to refer it to committee and because it's it's on a tight time frame as as Mr.

Timman said the ENC and and it's important for city council and the resident to get this information before make a decision about ENC. So I think uh for this reason I would like to vote on it today people my colleague can discuss about it and we can vote then administration can start to prepare this information.

I would like to hear my colleagues opinions on. Do you have a vote, a motion to put it into committee and then we can start the discussion? No, I would like to make a motion to vote on it today. To make a motion and vote on this is not going into committee.

This is just because after we vote, if we pass then administration can start to prepare those information if we send it to committee. So are you asking it not to go to committee or asking for it to come back on June 1st in a regular council meeting?

Is that what you're asking? So, I'm asking if we vote today, if we can pass it, can we uh let the administration give the presentation on June 1st? We can certainly ask, but I think what has to be brought back to the mayor and the mayor has the discretion of saying whether or not he's going to do it on June 1st, but we can certainly make that as a timeline for your office if that's what you that's what you so desire.

So, so can I make a amendment and change it June 15th to June 1st? Yep. We don't have a motion on the table, so we're going to say that that's that's an amendment for It's not an amendment. We're just changing it.

Okay. Yep. Great. uh suggestion that we uh I I would move to amend uh on page two where it says um at the very top of the page um be it further ordered that regarding order blah blah blah and the city's participation in the Massachusetts school building authority accelerated repair program the department of and then instead of public works it should be public buildings um I think that's more of a public buildings uh issue and then um I don't know if I can then just go to the bottom as well and add public buildings after department of public works at the very bottom under be it further ordered that the administration including but not limited to the planning board.

Um department of public works and public buildings that and public buildings would be added there. Um, so kind of a joint uh amendment. Okay. Anybody else on what was just read in Councelor Dabona? Thank you.

Thank you, Madam President. Um, I don't know, you had one, two, three, four, five sponsoring members to this and it was still a misprint in here for Department of Public Works to be part department of public buildings.

Um, it happened twice in this particular order. I mean, I don't know if anybody else I mean, is there a particular reason why it wasn't written correctly to start with? He's asking you why you had Department of Public Works instead of Department of Public Buildings.

It's a semantics. It's it's it people know DPW is DPW. DPW buildings DPW. So I don't think it's a big deal. The June 1st is a bigger deal than the June 15th. You're amending it because it's written corre incorrectly.

Department of Public Works. This is under the Department of Public Buildings. This particular skill, you know, MSBA accelerated repair program. I mean, I'm just asking for clarification. I mean this went through you know she spons council unan brought this forward you have four other sponsoring co co co co co co co co co co co co co co co co co co co co co co co co co co co co co co co co co co co co co co co co co-sponsors to this resolution I guess I could call it and that particular is you know there's two separate departments fully I if it's a department of public building okay so it was written wrong after that amend amendment was this a mistake was a mistake Mhm.

Yeah. I think that's a mistake. Okay. Um do you ever make them? No. I wanted to talk more if she's going to try to pass it tonight. I'd talk a little bit more in depth with um Do you want to go with the first and then Well, we don't have a motion, so there's we're just we're just editing in in real time because there's no motion on the table at this moment.

So, councelor's opinions on it. Council McKe, I just want to um say that, you know, we can actually um vote on this, I believe, because it's it's an order. So, we're asking the uh the administration to provide this information, which again in the city charter and in state law says that we can do.

If we um send questions, then uh the the mayor can ask to answer them. um if we provide them within seven days or more at least seven days. So this this seems like something that we can do tonight. Um and um I move to uh pass this as amended and to have it reviewed on the June 1st meeting and to have it be reviewed on June 1st.

Okay. So that's the request is a motion to pass this as amended and have it appear on the June 1st agenda with a presentation from the administration. Do we have a do we have a second on that motion? Second and by councelor Brian.

Um do we have uh do we have a roll call on this? Anything on the motion council council? Uh if I could just suggest that perhaps instead of trying to pass it tonight that we refer to the finance committee meeting, we'd be able to take it up on June 1st in the finance committee at the same time that we're talking about Eastern Nazarine College.

I think that if we wait until the full council meeting, we'll have already had our East Nazarene um presentation. It seems to me like it would be better to just do it all in the in the finance committee meeting on June 1st.

Um assuming that I'm going to call one obviously for the Eastern Nazarine College. So I I can't I guess I can't move unless some unless that gets withdrawn on the motion. The motion was to have it be in the regular motion to amend to put to finance committee and and refer to finance committee.

Yes. Just clarify, can we have a finance meeting June 1st? If I could set um the plan is to the administration would provide us with their presentation on Eastern Nazarene College by Wednesday, May 27th.

Uh the deadline for noticing of the public meeting would be Thursday, May 28th. That would give us the weekend to go over whatever information we have. We have a regular council meeting scheduled for June 1st at 7:30.

I would call the finance committee meeting where we could add have both ENC and this matter included on the finance committee meeting on June 1st. I'd like to propose 6 PM because we got a lot to cover.

So now we have a motion on the floor and an amendment on the floor and because council McKe made the amendment, do you do you do you accept the amendment? I just want to clarify by um by passing this um tonight, we could have it discussed on June 1st at the finance committee meeting.

So, we are passing this. We're not we're we're going to discuss it at the finance committee or are you saying that your amendment is to not do anything tonight except retake it up um on June 1st? if you want.

I'm gonna I think what she's saying is she's having a finance meeting that night and these two things are kind of going hand inand so it would probably best to have it all in one meeting and the finance meeting.

So we're going to pass this resolve and put it into finance and have it taken out in finance on June 1st. Okay, that's that's great. Council, so we if today we just send it to the committee meeting, does that mean uh administration already can start to prepare those information for June 1st finance committ?

I believe what's going to happen is councelor Riley is going to make a motion during the later when we're making committee meetings and have it brought out on June 1st. So yes, they will be prepared on June 1st.

Okay, councelor Ash. Sure. I think it's semantics. If the administration wants to is going to honor the request and pres present on these issues on June 1st, whether it's at a council meeting or a finance committee meeting, I don't think it makes a difference.

I do think it makes sense to have the ENC and and at the same time in finance. I know that President Mahoney prefers everything to go to a committee, so it may be cleaner if this does go to a committee as well.

Um, but I I think that June 1st, you know, what whatever agenda it's on, um, I don't think it makes much of a difference. Okay. Thank you, C. Ryan, did you have your hand up? No. Okay. All right. Over here.

Council Deona. And are we are we able to speak about this particular resolution before we start passing stuff or I thought you already did, but okay. Yeah. No, I mean, we get get into this. This is a whole like, you know, it Eastern Nazarene is in here.

school building um you know authority is in here. You got Delicia Early Childhood Center in here. You got the seaw walls and all those particular items. Yep. So is there any discussion on some of these items?

Do you understand what the what what council is trying to do? Is that the question? No, I'm I'm I'm just discussing I' I've been on the council for the last 10 years. So, I wanted to point out some things here real quick if I could.

Is that okay? Can we do that? Are we So, this is what we have in front of us is is the resolve that's going to be put into finance with an amendment. And you want to talk about specific just the history of these?

No, it's just just it basically it's um Sure. Go ahead. It it's it's it's like it's basically propaganda. propaganda about what you you know all these items is why you you know the the city is ongoing.

Let me just let me just put this as the city is ongoing. A lot of these projects that we do in the city especially the ski school building authority is based on almost a yearly spot check of the of the schools.

You know, our commissioner, Paul Hines, will go into the schools and see what's needed to be spot checked every year. Maybe even every semester, he'll go in and say, "Okay, this is what needs to be done.

This is what we can put in." We also have Squanum Elementary School that had precedent for different items. And then you have the delicas in here that's been spoken about quite a while. Um, and then the seaw walls.

I've been involved with the seaw walls since 2018 when it happened. So, um, every year we do a spot check for the seaw walls. Just I'm just stopping for one second because I don't think it's fair to call other counselors propaganda, but I think what the resolve that's being put forward is because of the Eastern Nazarine coming before us and there's a lot of talk of the Delic and all of the other projects.

And it's just it's just an opportunity for the administration to come back and give a spot check on the capital, the five-year capital improvement. We don't have a five-year capital improvement. I know we have rolling capital that happens, but they're just looking for I think what this resolve is really trying to do is kind of just take a pause, take a look at what's happening and put a priority on what we what what's a need.

This is this is your line. What's needs versus wants and that's really what this is and it's talking. So there's a lot of talk about seaw walls but we don't know how much they're costing that hasn't come to this this partic because there's new new stuff that has to be done that hasn't come to this chamber.

There's talks about the delicaser. It hasn't come to this chamber. There's talks about ENC. It has come to the chamber. There's talks about the Adams Presidential Library. It hasn't come to this chamber.

So, all of those things are out there being talked about, but we have no financial view into how we're going to do that and what the plan is. And I think that is the essence of what council UN's resolve is just to have that conversation so we can have a better understanding of where we're going.

This isn't propaganda. This is a request for the plan so that we can understand it and we can get more information so that if people want to be on the side of positive, we can get there and they can help us get there.

So, but getting back to Eastern Nazarene College, the acquisition of the $22.5 million. If that particular acquisition makes the the city millions of dollars, aren't you now part of the solution and not part of the problem?

So, what we need from that, okay, cuz you're just assuming like like we're assuming it's going to make us millions of dollars, but we don't know that because we don't have a plan in front of us and that's what they're going to bring to us.

Just like we bought the Monroe building with a plan for a college to go there, but we don't have a college. Just like we bought the Cena properties to put a No, that's these are the things we're talking about.

So, I'm just I'm just explaining to you that by asking for this, we're just asking for the plan to be able to roll this out. I understand that, but we're talking about Eastern Nazarene College. You guys are all in here now.

You now are part of the solution if you want to be. You can be part of the problem, too. And all I'm hearing is negativity. But if we're going to make millions of dollars on this particular item, you want councelor, then why wouldn't we do it?

Councelor, thank you. President Mahoney, I' I'd like to just suggest that we take the tone down a little bit. Council Dana, um, you know, this is a reasonable request because No, no, I've got the floor now.

Council Dana, I've got the floor. I've got the floor. I've got the floor. We're talking about Okay, this is something that the city either can provide some of this information that's that's in this order or not.

Okay, there is no reason why we shouldn't be forecasting 2 years, 5 years, 10 years into the future. Okay, as short-term bonds start to roll off, become due, as long-term bonds start to roll off, as new development is expected to come online, we should be able to see all of that laid out.

And that is an important component to the decision that we're going to be asked to be made on Eastern Nazarine College. We can't just keep taxing and spending our residents over and over again. Okay? And it's reasonable enough to know, well, what won't happen if we move forward with Eastern Nazarene College.

Maybe you won't get your seaw wall. I would like to make a motion to accept this order, refer it to the finance committee, and we'll deal with it on June 1st. I think we already have a motion. As amended.

As amended. All right. So, we have a motion by councelor McGee, amended by councelor Riley. We have to do it differently. What do we do? Okay. Cler making sure. So, that just Riley made the motion and was in the key.

McKe made the motion. Vision motion and Riley made the amendment. Okay. Great. So, we're going to take a vote on the amendment first. We're going to take on the vote on the amendment first, which will be to put it into finance as opposed to have it on the June 1st meeting.

So, we're councelor Ash. Yes. Council Deon. No. Council Hubley. Yes. Council Jacobs. Yes. Council McKay. Yes. Council Riley. Yes. Council Ryan. Yes. Council Yuen. Yes. President Mahoney. Yes. Okay. Now in the main motion.

So now in the main motion, we're going to be taking a vote to accept this motion as amended. As amended. So we have councelor Ash. Yes. Councelor Deona. Councelor Huby. Yes. Council Jacobs, yes. Council McKe, yes.

Council Riley, yes. Council Ryan, yes. Councilw, yes. President Money, yes. All right, moving on after you're done. Sure. So, we have item number four, excuse me, item number five. It's a gift $1,000 from the Quinsey Police Patrol Officers Association to DI.

So, I need a motion to approve. Motion by councelor Dabona, seconded by councelor Jacobs. And we will send a letter of thank you. Roll call, please. Council Ash, yes. Council Deona, yes. Council Hubley, yes.

Council Jacobs, yes. Council McKe, yes. Council Riley, yes. Council Ryan, yes. Councilwin, yes. President Mooney, yes. Moving on. Communications of reports from the mayor and other city officers and city boards.

So, we have a few here now, Madam President. Okay, we have the assistant clerk with utility and trafficics. So under utilities, we have one uh 20 um it's a utility grant a location for Mass Electric Verizon at 10 Independence A.

We also have four traffics. We have uh W two councelor Ash of Handicap parking at 121 Martinsson Street. W two council Ash had no parking on the even numbered side of fifth fifth street to school street to 325 south of school street.

W three, councelor Huby add handicap parking at 64 Hobbit Street and W six council Riley add no parking on the oddnumbered side of Bane Street Buildings Road to Dead. I'll second moving on to unfinished business and proceeding meetings.

Seeing none, moving on to reports of committee. Thank you. Um earlier tonight at 6:30 I held uh to two public hearings on 2026-067 utility grant to location Mass Electric Verizon 46 to50 Winter Street pole move and 2026-068 utility grant of location mass electric Verizon 46 to50 Winter Street pole install um positive recommendation after our public hearings.

It's a motion. Do we have a second? Yes. Motion um to move those. Second by councelor Riley. All those in favor? I. Any opposed? Eyes have it. Is there anything else? No. Ordinance. Anything to report?

Nothing. Finance. Um, just thank you. Just a reminder that tomorrow evening at 7 p.m. we have our second um finance committee meeting to review budgets. We'll be reviewing the assessor's office, retirement and pensions, education, police, animal control, fire, emergency management, health, department of grant management, and the planning department.

Um, and as we've discussed already tonight, I would like to plan on a June 1st finance committee meeting to speak of the Eastern Nazarene College plans as well as the um order presented by Council Yen tonight.

Excellent. Nelson. That's it. Yes. Thank you. Uh moving on to presentations of petitions, memorials, or remmonstresses. Elsa Riley. Yes. Thank you. Uh this morning I attended the funeral of Quinsey firefighter Neil Leonard, assigned most recently to Ladder 5.

Firefighter Leonard was laid to rest after serving for 32 years on the Quinsey Fire Department and six years in the Army National Guard. Firefinder Leonard passed away on May 12th after a brave fight against workplace related cancer.

He is remembered as a fix it guy, a taskmaster, a problem solver, selfless and loving. On behalf of the city council, we extend our deepest sympathies to his wife Barbara, his children Nicole and Daniel, as well as the entire Quincy Fire Department.

May firefighter Lennon be raised up on Eagle's wings. Thank you. We also have answers. Councelor Ash. Thank you. Um I would uh like to give and send our condolences to the family of Mary Perios. Uh Mrs.

Pertios is 85, longtime resident of Quinsey who most recently um was I believe they were in Hangingham actually, but Mr. Pertios passed away 2 months ago. Uh Mrs. Pertios passed on Monday, May 4th, 2026 at Southshore Hospital.

Uh Mary was born in Boston to Philip and Winterford Belmont. She was raised and educated in South Boston, moved to Quinsey Point in 1968 with her husband. Um where they resided for over uh 50 almost 55 years.

Um mother uh devoted mother of Steve Pertios and Courtney of Quinsey. Um Don and Denise, David and Saral and Dan and Jim. Um and of course I you know I I know the the Perios family well um and send our condolences and wishes to them.

Now the second um the the matriarch passing shortly after the patriarch of the family. So thank you. Thank you very much. Anybody else listened? So moving on to motions, orders and resolutions? None. and upcoming meetings.

Um, tomorrow night, May May 19th, we're going to be having a finance committee meeting and the next council meeting will be on June 4th. So, a motion to adjourn made by Council McKe. All those in favor?